Bigger audience share, but almost always lower ratings.
Well that doesn't quite add up.
I'm not sure where Square Eyes got his info from. But from looking at BARB ratings from the last few months, CBBC had higher ratings generally than Disney Junior.
What hours does Disney+1 broadcast between? It could be that the way they are calculating some figures assists channels that broadcast across longer hours, or across fewer hours. I've seen both methods used to boost or reduce figures 'creatively'
What a short sighted decision by ITV, I believe they should be increasing their spend on Children's programming not reducing it. It's all about money now instead of looking at providing for the future audience.
They never seem to learn...
What learning is that exactly?
Are you saying that if kids don't watch CITV now, they won't watch ITV later in life? I bet half those kids already watch X Factor or I'm a Celeb anyway.
I expect most kids are more likely to watch YouTube videos or probably a more cool, hip and trendy American series than anything home grown in this day and age. It was even like that in the 90s to some degree when Nickelodeon started and of course large parts of the CBBC/CITV schedules were Nickelodeon shows in those days. Plus of course there are so many advertising restrictions these days that it must be hard to make any money at all.
If the content ITV produce/buy isn't good then they might think all of their programming isn't of a good standard...though of course it depends on the person.
It's true Kids go for more trendy American series these days though, though I feel that's partly down to stale British programming more than anything. Advertising restrictions certainly haven't helped matters either but sometimes you got to spend a little (or lot) to gain the results you want. All a bit depressing when you consider CITV's history.
I'm not sure where Square Eyes got his info from. But from looking at BARB ratings from the last few months, CBBC had higher ratings generally than Disney Junior.
What hours does Disney+1 broadcast between? It could be that the way they are calculating some figures assists channels that broadcast across longer hours, or across fewer hours. I've seen both methods used to boost or reduce figures 'creatively'
I believe Disney Junior itself broadcasts 6am-midnight.
Real problem is Drama, and 12 -16 which seems to be lagging.
Do kids want more drama? Something that I'm aware of is that some children's programmes shown by the BBC and ITV in the 1970s and 80s are well remembered and still enjoyed nowadays but other programmes from the late 1990s and 2000s appear to be almost forgotten judging from the lack of video clips or mention of them on the internet.
Good quality children's dramas are always popular and memorable but IMO, and the opinions of several other people I have discussed the issue with, there has been in the past 20 years or so a sizeable amount of drama on CBBC and CITV that are mediocre in quality and unmemorable.
I expect most kids are more likely to watch YouTube videos or probably a more cool, hip and trendy American series than anything home grown in this day and age.
Are you implying that most (recent) British children's programmes have a staid and uncool image mirroring that which surrounded Rover cars in their last few years?
The age 12-16 target audience for the likes of CBBC and CITV disappeared years ago, as video games came into vogue, and CITV had pretty much stopped catering for them, as opposed to CBBC and the likes of Grange Hill and Byker Grove were on air on the network for, in the case of Grange Hill, best part of 30 years.
But that being said, they were aired in the 5:10pm slot prior to Neighbours so weren't up against anything targeting a similar audience on the other side.
These days the modern equivalent would have been BBC Switch, which wasn't a tremendous success in the grand scale of things and if truth be told if the BBC couldn't make it work without the need to chase the revenue, it would have been a suicide mission on any commercial network.
As to recent children's programming and how it looks... well that may be just the way it's done today - bright, bold, loud, brashy and colourful, slightly surrealist (especially a lot of current live action Nickelodeon programming) and you hit the ground running. That may push the budget a bit over here.
I have discussed children's TV with parents, and kids themselves, many times over the years. Notable findings include:
CITV lives in the shadow of CBBC and other children's TV channels, as well as YouTube. It is not a particularly strong or cool brand amongst kids today.
Most CITV programmes are aimed at a younger audience whereas there are programmes on CBBC and other children's TV channels that appeal to older children. It's quite common for young teenagers to watch some children's programmes although they are often selective in the types which appeal to them.
BARB figures for children's TV channels have to be treated with caution. Viewing figures do not correlate strongly with brand loyalty. The BARB viewing figures for CITV may be higher than those for certain other children's TV channels but this does not necessarily imply that kids are more loyal to CITV than other channels. They might only be watching CITV if there is nothing interesting on other channels or if they are watching a TV with Freeview whilst somebody else is watching a satellite or cable channel.
Quite a lot of kids watch children's programmes from yesteryear if their parents or friends also watch them. Cartoons are the most popular choice but kids will also watch dramas, educational programmes, and gameshows. CITV has an aversion to showing older programmes despite having a significant back catalogue.
The animation issue is controversial and debatable. Some parents stated that their kids overwhelmingly prefer animation to children's programmes shot on camera and would not watch CITV (or any other children's TV channel) as much as they do if there was a significant reduction in the amount of animation shown. Other parents criticised the amount of animation shown on CITV although the alternatives they suggested tended to be educational and action type programmes.
If the cost of or (lack of) profitability of children's programmes becomes a serious issue for ITV then should they create or commission new children's programmes in any significant quantity or should they just show repeats from their back catalogue?
There was debate over whether future children's programmes produced by ITV should be of the durable or throwaway variety. If cost and profitability of children's programmes are paramount issues for ITV then theoretically durable programmes are a better investment because they can be repeated, sold overseas, or released on DVD as an additional source of revenue.
Children and young teenagers regularly watch videos on YouTube that are very dissimilar to the types of programmes normally shown on children's TV.
The loss of a dedicated children’s commissioner in last year’s restructure is a concern for producers in the genre, but ITV insists it’s business as usual.
The restructure of CITV last November, which led to the loss of ITV’s only dedicated children’s commissioner, came as no great surprise to the industry.
Producers say the move is a further sign that the commercial PSB is slowly backing out of a genre it is no longer legally obliged to produce content for.
ITV pulled its pre-school content two years ago. Today, barring the odd exception such as Thunderbirds or Bear Grylls Survival School, its programming slate appears to favour acquisitions over original content and its extended hours are full of re-runs of old shows.
Oli Hyatt, creative director of Blue Zoo and director of Animation UK, puts it bluntly: “Why pay someone to not really commission anything?”
ITV’s former kids’ commissioner Jamila Metran is now at Sony Pictures Entertainment covering Francesca Newington’s maternity leave on kids’ channels Pop and Tiny Pop. She is not being directly replaced in a restructure that will hand responsibility for kids’ content to ITV’s team of cross-channel genre commissioners.
Yet according to ITV head of digital channels Paul Mortimer, it is business as usual at the broadcaster. “We are not backing out of kids,” he stresses. “The audience hasn’t changed on
CITV and we have not taken money out of the budget. All we have done is restructure internally.”
Separate relationships
Mortimer contends that Metran’s role commissioning content that would only serve one channel is now a “bit of an anomaly” to the way the broadcaster operates. This rankles with some producers.
Children’s TV encompasses several different genres and audiences – it’s a series of separate relationships with international producers and distributors and a challenge for any genre head to learn overnight.
As Mike Watts, managing director of Horrid Henry producer Novel Entertainment, notes: “People who work in kids’ TV tend to do so out of choice and for a reason: to create good content for kids. That tends to drive their commissioning decisions.”
But Mortimer says he has faith in his experienced commissioning team. “I think talking about a kids’ specialist is a bit disingenuous,” he says. “Most of the people in our team will, at some point, have made or commissioned kids’ TV – it’s part and parcel of anyone’s route to get into TV.”
He argues that producers will find it easier to secure meetings now because they are no longer reliant on a single point of contact.
Mortimer also appears keen to get out into the market and will be hitting Kidscreen in Miami later this month to meet potential co-production partners – which, he says, the broadcaster is seeking for live-action shows.
Following the restructure, ITV has committed to continuing to commission a “limited amount” of original content. Mortimer admits that he’s not yet reached out to the production community with a prescribed wish-list.
“It’s a bit of an odd time – we’ve just recommissioned some successful returning shows and are currently taking stock of what CITV has to offer.”
One of his long-term aims is to increase the amount of live-action content and scripted live-action on offer, and he is on the lookout for a physical gameshow.
CITV’s current focus on entertainment and the absence of a specialised head is a concern for the BBC, which – in areas such as kids’ drama, factual and scripted comedy – appears to be the only game in town for UK producers.
“It’s sad that there’s no role at the channel for a specific audience group like children’s,” says BBC Children’s director Alice Webb.
“Family entertainment is great, but it’s not the only thing that’s needed and to have someone without that focus who can examine the breadth of what is on offer means that the genre will suffer.”
CITV suppliers have mixed feelings about ITV’s strategy. Watts confirms that while Novel is planning a fifth series of Horrid Henry – the irreverent and uniquely British animated series was one of the CITV’s early success stories – it won’t be partnering with ITV on the new series.
“Anything that ITV commissions now tends to be stuff that they own the IP for,” he notes, referring to CITV’s relationship with ITV Studios (ITVS), through which it makes Thunderbirds Are Go.
Writer and animator Tony Collingwood, who sits on Pact’s council, says ITV Studios’ relationship with CITV might not be a bad thing. “I hope that ITVS will help to guide the channel and lobby for a continuation of CITV as a priority for ITV,” he says.
Jean-Philippe Randisi, chief executive of Zodiak Kids, which produces Scrambled for CITV, adds: “They’ve made it clear for a long time that they do kids’ because they have to rather than because they want to – but that doesn’t prevent them from doing good things in this space.”
Randisi argues that ensuring public service obligations are fairly allocated, rather than simply piled on the BBC, is paramount.
“The public service commercial broadcasters don’t operate in the same world as the BBC and they will do what they think is good for the business,” he says.
“So it becomes a question of regulation – it’s the reason why we still have a pretty solid and thriving kids’ content industry in Europe.”
In September, a campaign group, Save Kids’ Content UK, was set up to lobby Theresa May’s new government on this very issue. Spearheaded by a cross-party group of MPs, including Charlotte Leslie, MP for Aardman’s Bristol North West constituency, and including Pact, Ragdoll and the Children’s Media Foundation, the group is urging the government to make it a legal requirement for commercial PSBs to produce ‘at risk’ content as a condition of their public service status.
“Pact believes that the only true way to sustain investment in kids’ is to go back to primary legislation,” says Pact director of nations and children’s Rosina Robson.
Robson says that following another meeting with the government in December, ministers are currently examining possible amendments to the digital economy bill.
International appeal
For UK producers without a commitment from a free-to-air broadcaster, it’s becoming essential to make shows that work in the international market.
Creative Media Partners’ (CMP) action adventure Sindbad & The 7 Galaxies was created and written in the UK but has thrived without a single domestic sale. A slew of international broadcasters, including Sun TV in India, middle-eastern broadcaster NBC3Discovery and Amazon in the US, have all picked up the series.
Former Disney Channel exec Paul Robinson, who heads up CMP, says: “You have to make your show now with a global audience in mind – you can’t assume that you’ll make your money back in the UK. Once you achieve nine or 10 deals, then it starts to look quite interesting.”
The entrance of Amazon and its OTT rival Netflix into the children’s arena as potential co-funders is another alternative source of funding for kids’ TV producers – and a possible lifeline for ITV.
While investment in new commissions is still small, if two high-profile deals succeed – The Worst Witch (CBBC/ZDF/Netflix) and Lime Pictures’ Horse Mysteries (working title) project (CBBC/Netflix) – then Watts thinks there’s every reason to believe that there’s more to come. That can only be a good thing for the industry.
CITV should be what it needs to be to cater for its current audience, not 20/30-somethings stuck in the past (don't be offended by that, I'm one of them). But if IVC could be brought back into things, it'd be nice. Makes the channel feel much less autonomous. Unsurprisingly, CBBC doesn't appeal to me nowadays, but the same formula (studio+presenters+talking puppet) is still at its core.
This comes down to legislation and a need for UK childrens channels (and possibly the PSBs) to have a quota for original UK content. Even an hour a week is 8 x 13 part series a year, which across a handful of channels soon adds up.
This comes down to legislation and a need for UK childrens channels (and possibly the PSBs) to have a quota for original UK content. Even an hour a week is 8 x 13 part series a year, which across a handful of channels soon adds up.
ITV is already half way there. I do agree I would like to see CITV a least have some addition new content.