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ITV - paid for previews next?

Fairbairn suggests a pay for next episode early idea (November 2009)

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IS
Inspector Sands
Chie posted:
I don't agree with the principle of this proposal though. I think Viewers should either sit down and watch the programme at the allotted time or record it on their DVD-R / PVR / VCR or they miss it - simple as.

I don't agree with +1 channels (which should actually be called -1 channels since they're one hour behind the normal channels, not an hour ahead) for the same reasons.

Why what's the difference between watching it on a +1 or watching a time shifted version? +1's are very useful for viewers and are nice and cheap for the broadcasters.

What's your opinion on people who record from a +1 and then watch it later?
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Should I infer from history that he'll fatten up the cow and sell it to the Yanks?

I don't think that's going to happen.

It wouldn't be a bad thing if it did

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I just feel like ITV is so out of touch with how the market works at the moment, perhaps it's because the company is now run by people who specialise in 'business', rather than making money through great television.

The same is even more true of the BBC but I don't hear anyone complaining about that!

Not really, one of the problems with the BBC is that it isn't business orientated enough, I say this as someone who's had to deal with them as a customer.

ITV is the other way round, a bit too business orientated without the flare for TV

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If it was up to me, ITV wouldn't even have a website. It's a total waste of money.

Every company needs a website, TV stations particually so. One of the big failings of ITV in recent years was it's web strategy - for years they didn't have one and then when they did they messed it up with nonsense like Friends Reunited. In the meantime, the BBC, C4 and Sky forged ahead with great web presense
CH
Chie
Why what's the difference between watching it on a +1 or watching a time shifted version? +1's are very useful for viewers and are nice and cheap for the broadcasters.

Exactly - they're cheap. I think they cheapen the brand image.

ITV is the other way round, a bit too business orientated without the flare for TV

That's because it is a business.

Every company needs a website, TV stations particually so. One of the big failings of ITV in recent years was it's web strategy - for years they didn't have one and then when they did they messed it up with nonsense like Friends Reunited. In the meantime, the BBC, C4 and Sky forged ahead with great web presense

'A great web presence' might look good but it's no use to ITV if it can't make enough money.

In the nine months to October itv.com's gross revenue was £27 million (8% up on the same period last year, by the way). That might sound great but the majority of it has to go towards paying for the programming that's shown on the ITV Player (150 million views in the nine months to October). When you do the maths the website brings in fewer £'s per viewer than TV advertising does and it will never be equal to or greater than TV advertising revenue in a million years. So to tell your viewers that it's ok to be complacent and miss an episode if they feel like it because they can watch it on the ITV Player at their leisure is to shoot yourself in the foot.
ST
Stuart
According to Broadcast today, it seems that C4 have now jumped on the bandwagon and are suggesting a charge to view their previews online.

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Kevin Lygo, director of content and television, said some C4 staff were “terrified” the move would impact ratings for the first TX of new programmes, but that the broadcaster needed to adapt to changing viewing habits.

He said more people watched the first episode of Misfits last week, as a repeat or on catch-up than watched the original broadcast.

“The bugger of it is that we earn £1 for a viewer on C4, 50p for E4, and 10p when it’s on 4OD. But we can’t pretend it’s not happening. We’ve got to look at online charging,” he said.

“Why shouldn’t we, on a show like Skins, or The Inbetweeners, or The IT Crowd or Peep Show, put the first episode out [online, for free] and then say, ‘You can watch the next two episodes now for £5 or £10’?”

Lygo argued the move would not impact viewing figures as much as some C4 staff think - pointing to the launch of Skins, which the broadcaster marketed by pre-releasing the first episode online. Lygo said there was “huge debate” internally about the move but that it had paid off in the end without substantially eating into viewing figures for the first broadcast.

However, broadcasters will only be able to charge for pre-TX views of premium content which has already established itself as a series, he added.

Speaking at The Media Festival, Lygo also took a swipe at online drama Kate Modern, claiming the excitement about online innovation was undermined by the quality of content. “When Kate Modern appeared, I remember thinking, ‘Yes, it’s being shown on Bebo and everything - but it’s not very good.’”

He also revealed C4 is in talks with the BBC about joining Project Canvas, although he did not say whether C4 wants to show its content over the proposed IPTV platform, or to come in as a joint venture partner. “It’s a really interesting idea. We’re talking to them. I hope [we will join],” he said.
FB
Fluffy Bunny Feet
There's another flaw to this.
The ITV Network Centre or whatever it's called now are unlikely to commission a second series of say a new comedy show until they know how it's doing in the ratings.
If there's a lead in time of several months between finishing a shoot and transmission they are hardly likely to green light a second series so therefore no new clips to trail.
Also if Soaps are always on, why fee trail those? We know they are on anyway.
DA
David
There's another flaw to this.
The ITV Network Centre or whatever it's called now are unlikely to commission a second series of say a new comedy show until they know how it's doing in the ratings.
If there's a lead in time of several months between finishing a shoot and transmission they are hardly likely to green light a second series so therefore no new clips to trail.


I think its more a case of showing the second episode (or maybe every episode) of a new comedy show after the first episode has been shown on ITV1 and charging for it.

I can't see the appeal myself. Apart from live programmes, most things I watch on ITV1 are from Sky+ anyway so I'm hardly in a rush to see them. Sometimes I watch things a couple of days after broadcast so having the option to pay to watch something a couple of days before broadcast isn't an option I'd be likely to take up.

I could see some soap fans becoming hooked though. If they go online to see all next weeks episodes of Coronation Street because they just can't wait to see them on TV then the wait to see the next new episode on TV becomes even longer so they need to go online again to get their fix. Once ITV have these people hooked then they have a steady income, although as Chie points out its one less viewer for the (currently) more profitable broadcast version.
GS
Gavin Scott Founding member
I could see some soap fans becoming hooked though. If they go online to see all next weeks episodes of Coronation Street because they just can't wait to see them on TV then the wait to see the next new episode on TV becomes even longer so they need to go online again to get their fix. Once ITV have these people hooked then they have a steady income...


Hence me saying reduce the cost to 50p a show to gain as many soap addicts as you can. If they can reconcile themselves to the fact that its "about £4 per week" they may just get into the habit of staying an episode ahead. It could even allow them to watch the upcoming week's worth of a soap on a Sunday afternoon for a commensurate sum.

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...although as Chie points out its one less viewer for the (currently) more profitable broadcast version.


Chie has said a couple of things in this discussion that I'm having a job getting my head around.

No doubt some would choose not to repeat view when the programmes air on ITV1, but many would. I'm a regular downloader of certain US programmes, but it doesn't stop me watching when they make it to air over here. I suppose when you factor that people have already paid for it, they may consider it "worthy" of a second watch.

Don't know. Guessing now.

Definitely one for research agencies - how people view all this new internet TV alongside their main set is the big question. Its all so new and yet its changed everything. I couldn't live without the iPlayer these days, it has a constant presence on my PC.

All the free high quality content has completely persuaded me that I'm happy to view drama, comedy and all-sorts on my monitor (and scan converted to my TV).

I would now consider paying the right price for something I really want to see using this method. That's a quantum leap from how I used to feel about it. I can't be alone.

This is potentially a goldmine.
TR
trivialmatters
Chie posted:
I just feel like ITV is so out of touch with how the market works at the moment, perhaps it's because the company is now run by people who specialise in 'business', rather than making money through great television.

The same is even more true of the BBC but I don't hear anyone complaining about that!


You make it quite clear that you don't like the BBC much, but I don't think they're out of touch with how viewers are consuming programmes. They were the first to have services like radio catch up, the iPlayer service online and programmes for download to your computer, and the success and popularity of those is testament to the quality of the iPlayer platform and the audience's demand for it.

Chie posted:
If it was up to me, ITV wouldn't even have a website. It's a total waste of money. You say advertisers spend more online than they do on television, but the money is spread so thinly between so many websites that ITV will never 'rake it in'.


I'd disagree that it's a waste of money, but I'd say that if done poorly it can cheapen or damage your brand.

You're right that the advertising spend is spread thinly over a great number of websites, but the nature of television advertising is different to that of online banner adverts. With television advertising, you sell advertising space based on the understanding that you have a captive audience of x-million viewers that will sit through your 30second advert. There is no reason why this same principle shouldn't apply online - it's not the same as placing a banner advert and hoping people spot it - you're getting the same audience watching with the only difference being that they're using a computer.

Instead of selling separate advertising on the ITV Player, it should be part of the overall agreement with the advertiser that they'll pay for the ITV Player. So, using your figures, if an advertiser pays £35 for 1000 viewers, the advert should also appear online during the same programme, with the advertiser paying this additional cost.
TR
trivialmatters
Definitely one for research agencies - how people view all this new internet TV alongside their main set is the big question. Its all so new and yet its changed everything. I couldn't live without the iPlayer these days, it has a constant presence on my PC.


Without a doubt, Project Canvas will change everything. Once millions of homes can access iPlayer, ITV Player etc through their television set as well as their computer, I'm certain we'll see a shift in advertising trends on the commercial services. The only logical conclusion is to tally together the total viewing figures; so you'd factor in ITV Player on Virgin, ITV Canvas Player, and ITV.com, as well as the broadcast on ITV1, with the same adverts shown in the same slots on the particular episode.

The Channel 4 press release says they make £1 per viewer on Channel 4, but only 10p per viewer on 4OD. This is because 4OD features far, far fewer advertisements - but why should it? It shouldn't be a case of "you pay less for advertising on 4od because fewer people use it", it should be a case of "4million people will see your advert during Skins, across all our services, and this is how much you'll pay".
IS
Inspector Sands
There's another flaw to this.
The ITV Network Centre or whatever it's called now are unlikely to commission a second series of say a new comedy show until they know how it's doing in the ratings.
If there's a lead in time of several months between finishing a shoot and transmission they are hardly likely to green light a second series so therefore no new clips to trail.
Also if Soaps are always on, why fee trail those? We know they are on anyway.

They're not trails, the idea is that you can watch the next episode early before it appears on TV.

The commissioning isn't an issue, when the series finishes there'll be no next episode to put up online and no need to have one as the series is finished and storylines resolved. As mentioned earlier, the BBC have shown 'the next episode' of things like QI, when the last episode had gone out there was no more - no issue
IS
Inspector Sands
Chie posted:

'A great web presence' might look good but it's no use to ITV if it can't make enough money.

No, they still need a web site of some sort, how many companies do you know that don't have a website... it doesn't have to make money, it promotes and adds value - not necessarily financial value
DA
David
The Channel 4 press release says they make £1 per viewer on Channel 4, but only 10p per viewer on 4OD. This is because 4OD features far, far fewer advertisements - but why should it? It shouldn't be a case of "you pay less for advertising on 4od because fewer people use it", it should be a case of "4million people will see your advert during Skins, across all our services, and this is how much you'll pay".


Is that what the advertisers want though? Its going to be up to them in the end. A viewer watching Coronation Street at 19:30 on a Friday is going to be worth more/less to an advertiser than a viewer watching the same show at 03:00 on a Sunday morning. Advertise Pizza Hut at 19:30 and you will get people making an impulse buy and ordering a pizza. Show the same ad at 03:00 and the shop is closed. On the other hand, advertise Gay Chat at 03:00 and you will probably get a better result from your 99.9% adult audience than if the same ad went out at 19:30 to a family audience.

Until 4oD, BBC IPlayer etc. is in every home (or at least as many as a television) then the demographic will be skewed again. Someone watching on one of the new platforms, even if they are watching the programme at the same time as it is being broadcast, may be more responsive to a Playstation 3 Slim advert than a Kniting Monthly advert that is being shown on ITV 1 at the same time.
CH
Chie
Instead of selling separate advertising on the ITV Player, it should be part of the overall agreement with the advertiser that they'll pay for the ITV Player. So, using your figures, if an advertiser pays £35 for 1000 viewers, the advert should also appear online during the same programme, with the advertiser paying this additional cost.

Try convincing the advertisers of that.

The fact is that the number of video views on the ITV Player has increased by just over 200% on last year. Meanwhile, the advertising revenue has only increased by 8%. ITV will have no choice but to scrap the ITV Player or turn it into a subscription service soon, because the disparity between the increase in viewers and the increase in revenue is totally unsustainable.

Kevin Lygo explained it better than I could in the Broadcast Now article, which was quoted further up the page. Unfortunately, the gulf between the revenue per viewer from ITV1 and the ITV Player is even wider than that, even though the ITV Player has more adverts than 4oD.

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