ITV is ****

Are you drunk, Chie?

There is no more "benefit to society" from the X Factor than there is from the annual Eurovision Song Contest: unless you're going to claim that it's solely responsible for the fact that we haven't had a continent-wide war for 50 years?

The 15m people (is it really that many) watching X Factor aren't "sharing the experience". Many will be sat on their own, others in small groups of less then 4. It's no more shared than any other programme they watch.

Don't make out that X Factor has some sort of altruistic undertones, it doesn't!

If only the head of STV could admit the same...

I have to agree with Chie ( for once ) you have to admit that it is one of them so called "water cooler" moments, like the next day at work etc quite a few peopel are talking about it. No matter what you think of Cowell's shows they do get the public talking.

I shouldn't imagine their talking about their 2 biggest rating shows are the "lowest common denominator" shows.

All their doing is admitting that some stuff is not up to scratch and going a bit further, hoping to get the CRR restricitions taken off. They would say anything if it could possiblibly make ITV millions a year. I think there've got more chance with there being a Tory government and one of them being a former Tory MP. I'm sure the contacts will help!

The X Factor is a big Saturday night shiny floor show and nothing more.... but it's exactly what ITV needs.

It draws in the advertisers in the crucial pre-Christmas months and Simon Cowell's PR machine ensures that it's in the papers several times a week and therefore it's the most talked about show in the country. That's the way a commercial TV station should be run. 'Lowest Common Denominator' they might be but commercially there's nothing wrong with that if it draws in the audience and therefore money you want... ITV has been funded by LCD shows since it launched

The long term problem is that eventually everyone will either get tired of it, or something else will come along to usurp it and it will become Big Brother. ITV need to be prepared for that.

It's culturally significant but not necessarily for the best reasons. It's not adding anything to society though and the only thing that would be affected by it not existing are the profits made by a handful of companies: ITV, Freemantle, Cowell and Sony

I'm sure SyCo can spit out another hit in time.

No, on this one Chie is right, and whilst I wouldn't say there is a "benefit" in terms of "improving quality of life" or "improving social conventions", it's an enjoyable show for many millions and a massive talking point, like the World Cup or Olympics are to some.

As for the Eurovision Song Contest, that actually does have a benefit to society, in some countries. Whilst the UK may scoff at it and enter joke acts every year, it's a big event across the rest of Europe, they take it seriously and are extremely proud when their acts do well. Like Chie says, it provides social cohesion, national pride. You can turn your nose up at these shows because you don't like them, but don't devalue their importance.



I don't know how old you are, but everybody I know that's my age watches the X Factor, whether alone or in groups, and at the same time I'm writing tweets or posting Facebook messages and texts, and we share the fun of the X Factor together. When unpopular contestants come on, my phone fills with "urgh, that stupid Weasel girl!" texts.

There's also hundreds of bars in London that play the X Factor. I watched last week's in a bar in Soho and the atmosphere was great, people cheering and booing the contestants, laughing at things that went wrong, cheering at the judge's comments.

And then in the office on a Monday morning, it's the talk of the town. 'Did you see the X Factor?!' is asked every Monday morning, and sparks a long discussion.

Maybe 'in your day' you'd go down the pub on a Saturday and drink a pint and listen to the fat lass singing karaoke. Nowadays, people have their friends over and make popcorn at home and listen to the fat lass singing on the television, whilst sharing that experience with hundreds of friends through the internet.

Your judgement is clouded, not mine.


Yes, but they have a life, which means they talk about The X Factor at work, school, the pub (what's left of them) or university, etc. Whether they talk about the show or not, the fact that 1 in 4 people have shared the same cultural experience, albeit separately, is great for social cohesion. It works on a domestic level too.

Another thing to remember about The X Factor is that talent always wins out in the final, usually an 'underdog' who's triumphed over some kind of adversity to win the country's biggest competition. Leona Lewis was quiet, unconfident and Joe McElderry was a shy northern boy, for example - people who didn't believe they could win in a million years. Simon Cowell has compared the show to 'Gone With The Wind' for this reason. The winner's success is a fantastic inspiration to viewers.

Stuart, there is so much value in The X Factor. I can't believe you would cheerfully deprive 15 million viewers of their entertainment because you personally hate it. You meanie!

I haven't suggested depriving anyone of their Saturday evening tat, simply argued against your suggestion regarding its social achievments and attributes. Society is no better or worse off thanks to the presence of X Factor, or any of the other talent shows.

I've never watched the programme, so I wouldn't be able to justify 'hating' it. I just count myself amongst the 75% of the population who aren't tempted by this particular programme.


I can assure you that I have never been tempted to visit the pub on a Saturday night by the thought of 'the fat lass' singing, and I am not of an age to start making statements that begin "...back in my day", just yet.

You cheeky young whipper-snapper!

Chie, you're imbuing it with a set of qualities it doesn't really have, and anything Simon says in a puff-piece should be taken with the knowledge that its his job to talk it up and keep it in the press.

But in general terms I don't disagree that its water-cooler tv, and I've seen it played in pubs I drink in.

Ultimately its no different to any other "shiny floor" entertainment show - or any of the talent shows which preceded it - which actually had a lot more viewers in real terms. Even I auditioned for Les Dawson's Opp Knocks - as it was clear what that could do for a career boost.

ITV's issue (aside from the fact that their CEO thinks it's a bit trashy), is what to do when the bubble bursts. Cowell only has one flavour - talent + judges + phone vote. He's making hay while the sun shines, and good for him - but it won't last forever and will go the same way as makeover shows and gardening programmes.

Things can only last so long - so they have to start working on something else pretty damned quick.

And wouldn't it be great if they tried to come up with a new idea?

Downton Abbey and Whitechapel show that ITV can still make decent new dramas, when they want to... I don't think they can't rely just on Midsomer and Taggart (as popular as they are)

Society is better off thanks to the presence of high-rating TV shows - the content of the show isn't relevant. Adam Crozier gave the impression that market deregulation will lead to ITV making more niche programmes that attract a few million viewers each and the loss of high-rating, socially cohesive family entertainment which he wrongly calls 'lowest common denominator' when he actually means 'accessible'. Do not want.

That's a conclusion.

Could you now explain how?