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ITV HD Regions on Freeview

MA
Markymark Meridian (Thames Valley) South Today
As itv never opt they can go regionally HD without any of their regional studios being HD equipped
but the BBC who opt in the region (and seamlessly as well)
need to do more work ....
and ideally have carried out their now ( just) published intent to make the studios HD ....
There has always been this tension ....
and even the BBC seeing and rejecting never opting to be like itv

But a bit of the pump priming funding could be applied to make a new code and mux for PSB 3 (after all it has been wasted in putting broadcasting in the middle if the mobile band )
or mandate HD only PSB emission a la now ennobled Vaizey plan .. probably best opportunity wasted
It is not as simple as just itv or BBC regionalising.
But it is a by product of 13 years if BBC income being reduced ....

As a final thought
But what would be the situation if Siemens/Atos were still doing c&m ..?
And if you wait a year or two coding and mux could become a lot cheaper
As it virtualises .
.


I don't get this seamless opting thing you talk about? ITV regional news bulletins are opted in and out by router salvos at Chiswick and Leeds I think, and the very randomly timed ones in GMB are switched via commands from GMB's gallery? It works very well, and is far from clunky. I'd say it's less clunky than the Beeb's system?


I've always understood Technologist's descriptions as

On the BBC the regional news studios opt themselves.

On ITV, the network playout opts for them.

The BBC's opt appears seamless and like it was done automatically, despite the fact it was a actual person doing it.


Yes, the fundamental difference is that the BBC feed the network output from London, physically through the regional studio, and then that goes to the CCMs.

With ITV all the regional sites are remote sources that feed into Chiswick and Leeds, and they are switched to the CCMs there via the playout automation (except for GMB where GMB's vision mixer sends a command to Chiswick and Leeds to make the switches, because as we know the regional opts on that show are far from rigourously scheduled!)
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70s child and MarkT76 gave kudos
SC
Si-Co Tyne Tees Look North (North East)
Does network BBC One only pass through the English regional studios when they are “in circuit” or “soft opted”, and normally bypass these sites?
CEEFAX SUBTITLES BEGIN SHORTLY
IS
Inspector Sands

Yes, the fundamental difference is that the BBC feed the network output from London, physically through the regional studio, and then that goes to the CCMs.

That is changing I believe
TE
Technologist London London
Si-Co posted:
Does network BBC One only pass through the English regional studios when they are “in circuit” or “soft opted”, and normally bypass these sites?

The feed from playout goes to the regional centre where is is looped back to coding and mux ..... if there is a opt the feed is switched to extend it through the studio and then back to coding and Mux .....

If the switch was elsewhere on the BBC estate this would still not the same as itv where it is done in playout ... a key architectural point ..

One thing that would change things radically would be if the regions were Made like ViLor ( and made with /partitioned from NBH NEWS)
but current press releases read more like conventional TV studio equipment.
Rather than back hauling the cameras mics etc to a central server.
SC
Si-Co Tyne Tees Look North (North East)
So if there was an issue such as a power cut at the regional site (I assume by that you mean the actual studio buildings), would this take BBC One off the air in that region, regardless of whether or not they showing local content?
CEEFAX SUBTITLES BEGIN SHORTLY
IS
Inspector Sands
Si-Co posted:
So if there was an issue such as a power cut at the regional site (I assume by that you mean the actual studio buildings), would this take BBC One off the air in that region, regardless of whether or not they showing local content?

Assuming that no UPS kicked in, either to power the whole place or just the bays containing the lines and opt kit.

But then alarms would go off downstream and a replacement region would be switched to air instead

But as I say it's all due to change
MA
Markymark Meridian (Thames Valley) South Today
Si-Co posted:
So if there was an issue such as a power cut at the regional site (I assume by that you mean the actual studio buildings), would this take BBC One off the air in that region, regardless of whether or not they showing local content?


Well, that's always been the case, since the regions were established in the 1960s. In analogue times, RBS off air from a neighbouring region would have cut in, until BT locally over-patched the studios at their exchanges (to feed the local Tx from London directly). As Mr Sands says today, someone at the CCM would effectively do a similar thing.

Further reading..
http://txfeatures.mb21.co.uk/down_the_tubes/index.shtml#Network_Failure
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Avatar credit: © BBC, ITA, BREMA 1967
TE
Technologist London London
In the days of analogue some regions had a BT UPS and relay to route the signal to the transmitter before it hit the BBC system ..
Then there was regional recall which enabled London to un opt the region ,
And then the studio centres systems with the real opt switch and studios etc.
Also some regions thought it better to have a blank screen than the adjacent regions output via RBS ..... but when regional recall was installed "London" found out the deals local regional management had done and mandated BBC transmission to undo the systems ... some of which were genuine clockwork !!!

Now if a region centre fails, CCM will just (auto) buddy the agreed other region....

Can I clear up one point .. a seamless opt is one done during a programme
Like half way through the News or during Breakfast thus unscheduled
while the 18h30 ish opt is not seamless as it has a separate programme in the schedule
And if course the Nations have not opted from 11 days after DTT launch .
Last edited by Technologist on 26 September 2020 7:47pm
MA
Markymark Meridian (Thames Valley) South Today


Can I clear up one point .. a seamless opt is one done during a programme
Like half way through the News or during Breakfast thus unscheduled
while the 18h30 ish opt is not seamless as it has a separate programme in the schedule
.


Yep. Exactly the same situation as ITV with the GMB opts, so I don't understand why you say they are different?
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Avatar credit: © BBC, ITA, BREMA 1967
TE
Technologist London London
Itv are scheduled events ..... with control with GMB I.e source
Unlike BBC which are not scheduled items
and are controlled by the region I.e the destination.
( which is why there are two points in the sustaining feed
for them to get back ....)
MA
Markymark Meridian (Thames Valley) South Today
Itv are scheduled events ..... with control with GMB I.e source
Unlike BBC which are not scheduled items
and are controlled by the region I.e the destination.
( which is why there are two points in the sustaining feed
for them to get back ....)


I see. Well, although the ITV/GMB solution has had some spectacular cock ups when a particular region hasn't been ready, I think it works well. Effectively the opts all happen with a single press of the button at GMB's gallery, rather than a dozen button pushes around the UK
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AN
Andrew Founding member Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)
Itv are scheduled events ..... with control with GMB I.e source
Unlike BBC which are not scheduled items
and are controlled by the region I.e the destination.
( which is why there are two points in the sustaining feed
for them to get back ....)


I see. Well, although the ITV/GMB solution has had some spectacular cock ups when a particular region hasn't been ready, I think it works well. Effectively the opts all happen with a single press of the button at GMB's gallery, rather than a dozen button pushes around the UK

There is also the opposite end to consider as well, on ITV if you mistime slightly, they’ll cut you off, on the BBC you can just opt back in slightly late, and just clip the start of a trailer or the national weather. I’ve seen both happen on BBC One and ITV
AndrewPSSP and Markymark gave kudos

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