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Is the BBC concentrating on too-much off-screen activity?

(August 2005)

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tvmercia Founding member
TROGGLES posted:
The BBC seems to have some funny ideas about what it is supposed to do. Its new 'open centre' in Hull is a glorified internet cafe and flogs coffee - Iv'e not seen that anywhere in the BBC charter - they claim to have had 100,000 people through the door since it opened and are very proud of the fact. Should they not concentrate on improving programming rather than these non core activities?

surely it increases access to the bbc's online services, which are now part of its remit. and of course the bbc's overall aim is to educate, entertain and inform, and as you know, becoming internet-literate gives access to pleny of educational, entertaining and informative bbc content. the people most likely to pop in to bbc hull are listeners to the bbc local radio station, who are for the most part middle aged or elderly, and the group who are most likely not to have a computer.

it is not a costly project in bbc terms, and you have to remember, the bbc is owned by the people. its important that as an organisation they actively encourage people to visit centres to see where their money is spent and to learn more about the services they offer, and make viewers feel a sense of ownership of local bbc services.
TR
TROGGLES
I agree the BBC should be accessible. The Beeb are very touchy about not competing or duplicating services ie closing the cult website et al so opening an internet cafe in the city centre in direct competition to businesses seems a little strange. Most of the BBC's new region is rural. Approx 20% of the regions population lives in Hull & has access to this new centre. They would have been better off investing in more BBC buses and getting out into the counties. They could have built the new centre far cheaper and if they really must flog coffee open a small shop with a cafe in the city centre.
Its indicative of the BBC's current obsession with shopping centres. Demolishing Pebble Mill in Birmingham which cost them £1000 per annum in rent and replacing it with the Mailbox which costs £2 million per year - I really cannot see how this equates to the BBC's value for money promise.
TV
tvmercia Founding member
TROGGLES posted:
I agree the BBC should be accessible. The Beeb are very touchy about not competing or duplicating services ie closing the cult website et al so opening an internet cafe in the city centre in direct competition to businesses seems a little strange. Most of the BBC's new region is rural. Approx 20% of the regions population lives in Hull & has access to this new centre. They would have been better off investing in more BBC buses and getting out into the counties. They could have built the new centre far cheaper and if they really must flog coffee open a small shop with a cafe in the city centre.
Its indicative of the BBC's current obsession with shopping centres. Demolishing Pebble Mill in Birmingham which cost them £1000 per annum in rent and replacing it with the Mailbox which costs £2 million per year - I really cannot see how this equates to the BBC's value for money promise.


its not an internet cafe though - if you wanted to check your email, go into a web chat, use msn, browse any non-bbc site then you would be sorely disappointed. the point of the service is to give people access to bbc online and to give computer newbies a taste of the world of information available online. so it really isnt in competition with internet cafes, because it does not perform the same function, and i've certainly not heard any stories of complaints from internet cafes in open centre cities.

the main point of the centres is to invite people in by being less remote and making people feel more ownership of the bbc. its a concept no commercial station has embarked upon, or is likely to embark upon.

as to the closure of pebble mill, i'm the first to admit it was a mistake, and it really hasnt been value for money. not sure where the £1000/yr comes from, i heard £2000/month. any replacement for pebble mill was going to be costly, the bbc would have found it hard to be seen to scale back operations in the 2nd city to the size of a tunbridge wells-type operation.
TR
TROGGLES
Fair enough but what of the 2.8 million people who have to rely on the 2 second hand BBC buses - the open centre only serves those who travel into Hull. The area this region covers stretches the equivelant from the BBC in Birmingham to the front door of Broadcasting house. Its made up of little towns and rural areas. People who I have spoken to think the BBC has gone from being London Based to Hull based. Its such a shame because done properly it would have worked really well.
The rental prices for Pebble Mill were quoted by BECTU. There is no justification for demolishing Pebble Mill. They are going to have to build a massive studio complex in Manchester - or refit Oxford Road at a similar cost - to move BBC Sport, Childrens Programmes & 5Live from London to the regions. They had exactly what they needed in Birmingham ready built. True it needed refurbishment but it would have been much cheaper to do that. The whole point of 'Value for money' was to put money into programming - It would seem to be going on capital projects. Someone somewhere has dropped a very big one with these plans.
BR
Brekkie
tvmercia posted:
TROGGLES posted:
The BBC seems to have some funny ideas about what it is supposed to do. Its new 'open centre' in Hull is a glorified internet cafe and flogs coffee - Iv'e not seen that anywhere in the BBC charter - they claim to have had 100,000 people through the door since it opened and are very proud of the fact. Should they not concentrate on improving programming rather than these non core activities?

surely it increases access to the bbc's online services, which are now part of its remit. and of course the bbc's overall aim is to educate, entertain and inform, and as you know, becoming internet-literate gives access to pleny of educational, entertaining and informative bbc content. the people most likely to pop in to bbc hull are listeners to the bbc local radio station, who are for the most part middle aged or elderly, and the group who are most likely not to have a computer.



What a load of bollocks? Using that logic should the BBC be providing everyone with digital boxes to watch BBC3 / BBC4 etc as well!


Almost everything the BBC does is mostly for the good of the BBC, not for the good of the licence payer!
TV
tvmercia Founding member
Brekkie Boy posted:
tvmercia posted:
TROGGLES posted:
The BBC seems to have some funny ideas about what it is supposed to do. Its new 'open centre' in Hull is a glorified internet cafe and flogs coffee - Iv'e not seen that anywhere in the BBC charter - they claim to have had 100,000 people through the door since it opened and are very proud of the fact. Should they not concentrate on improving programming rather than these non core activities?

surely it increases access to the bbc's online services, which are now part of its remit. and of course the bbc's overall aim is to educate, entertain and inform, and as you know, becoming internet-literate gives access to pleny of educational, entertaining and informative bbc content. the people most likely to pop in to bbc hull are listeners to the bbc local radio station, who are for the most part middle aged or elderly, and the group who are most likely not to have a computer.



What a load of ****? Using that logic should the BBC be providing everyone with digital boxes to watch BBC3 / BBC4 etc as well!

Almost everything the BBC does is mostly for the good of the BBC, not for the good of the licence payer!


the bbc is not giving people computers, it is not giving people courses, it is giving access to their services. to install a couple of computers in a reception area with a couple of staff is not expensive.

i know its pointless arguing with you, as you have an inherent dislike for the bbc, but i can assure you there are projects, ideas and practices that are a complete waste of the licence fee, but i think it is wrong to label this as one of them. its easy for internet savvy people like us to forget that there are huge swathes of the country who are not computer owners or computer literate, who have as much right to view the online content the bbc produce as us.
BR
Brekkie
tvmercia posted:
i know its pointless arguing with you, as you have an inherent dislike for the bbc, but i can assure you there are projects, ideas and practices that are a complete waste of the licence fee, but i think it is wrong to label this as one of them. its easy for internet savvy people like us to forget that there are huge swathes of the country who are not computer owners or computer literate, who have as much right to view the online content the bbc produce as us.


Your right it's pointless arguing - I won't get anywhere with you either.

My point though would be that it shouldn't be the responsibility of the BBC to encourage people to get online - and certainly shouldn't be funded by the licence fee. The BBC's responsibilities are with TV and Radio, and IMO any online activity should link directly to this!


I will say one thing though about the licence fee - though I think it should go, in truth you would only know the real implications of abolishing the licence fee once it is done - and then if things went wrong it would probably be too late!
TR
TROGGLES
Its far from just a couple of computers its quite a big place & mostly full younger people - something the Beeb is also paranoid about , that is attracting a younger audience to their local radio stations. If we must replace the licence fee then someone will have to come up with something better than the usual ideas trotted out every 10 years for charter renewal. I am amazed that people think that it is so poor value considering they pay £20 to watch a lot of repeats and american imports to make the Murdoch dynasty rich. As for ITV being free it would be interesting to know just how much the weekly shopping bill would reduce if they took the advertising money off your purchases - joe public does not have a choice there either I would love to walk into tescos and ask for 40% off my bill as I don't watch the adverts.
CW
Charlie Wells Moderator
Brekkie Boy posted:
Just wondering what your thoughts are on the BBC's off-screen activities?


Is it really a valuable use of the licence fee to make BBC programmes - and even channels - available online?


How about this for a use of the licence fee, taken from MediaGuardian...
http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcast/story/0,7493,1560071,00.html
Quote:
BBC spends £11.8m on taxis

Tara Conlan
Thursday September 1, 2005

Spending on taxis by the BBC increased last year by 3.5% to £11.8m, despite attempts by the director general Mark Thompson to cut back.

In the year 2004-05 the cost of taxis paid for and arranged through the BBC's central booking system cost £11.8m - up from £11.4m in 2003-04.

The above-inflation increase may actually be higher, as the figures exclude those cabs that staff may have arranged and paid for through other means.

Taxis have long been a bugbear of BBC director generals. Mr Thompson's predecessor, Greg Dyke, famously tried to ban them - introducing shuttle buses to try to save money.

In the year to April 2000 the cost of taxis for staff and guests on BBC shows was £13.1m. The following year it was £11.3m, then £12.7m in 2001-02 and £11.7m in the year to April 2003.

A BBC spokesman said the increase was due to more people using the corporation's central booking system to hire taxis.

He said: "This has arisen primarily through BBC Northern Ireland and BBC Scotland now using the central taxi booking system, and greater compliance with the system by BBC staff throughout, which in turn enables the BBC to benefit from negotiating better deals with suppliers."
TR
TROGGLES
There was a lot of fuss over the booking system in the Ariel letters page, apparently a 'software glitch' meant that a taxi which cost £5 was costing £20. Strange that - most BBC taxis are paid for with a scrabby peice of photocopied paper. - much more cost effective
IS
Inspector Sands
noggin posted:

The Dutch cable companies pay the BBC for rights to re-broadcast BBC One and Two. Until relatively recently these were picked up off-air from large aerial arrays (in a similar way to the Channel Islands at that time) These days the BBC One and Two feeds are from DSat receivers - hence the skeleton text service that was re-introduced.


It's also the reason why someone set up http://www.ceefax.tv/
Although if you have acess to the internet, why you'd want Ceefax when you can get the information on BBC Online I have no idea
IS
Inspector Sands
tvmercia posted:

as to the closure of pebble mill, i'm the first to admit it was a mistake, and it really hasnt been value for money. not sure where the £1000/yr comes from, i heard £2000/month. any replacement for pebble mill was going to be costly, the bbc would have found it hard to be seen to scale back operations in the 2nd city to the size of a tunbridge wells-type operation.


Surely the £1000/2000 a year was ground rent - i.e. the lease on the land it was on rather than the building itself.

The BBC owned the building, which of course would have cost much much more to run and maintain - that was the main outgoing

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