Really? I've never heard of channels having such devices, not ones that would react to a still picture anyway (if it's non-sync, non-legal or corrupted data that's a different matter). Most TV channels do have lengthy periods of static screen and silence every night of course and films
I can assure you we have them here at the BBC. And we never have lengthy periods of static screen and silence.
You're right though that automation and computers have a lot to do with it, but it's more to do with what can be done now compared with years ago. In a manual gallery running lots of short trails, putting on graphics and fast cutting was impractical. At the BBC most junctions were literally handed over to the announcer who was essentially 1 man with a load of slides and live sources that didn't need cueing or running. Now that the director or operator uses a computer to run the show it can be preview, load, cue, run and cut multiple items with a great deal of accuracy. I'm sure they would have liked to have upped the pace but they just couldn't.
Hm. Your view of BBC pres is a wee bit off the mark. As a BBC announcer-director for the last 14 years I can tell you that a) it's always been a lot more than one man with a load of slides and live sources: we used to have to cope with those dreadful Sony cart players and remote-starting VTs that sometimes didn't. And part of our function has always been to cue live sources. and b) yes we use computers to run the show but we still manually intervene in most junctions because automation can't cope with live telly.
Of course, ITV did used to run lots of recorded items back to back but even their ad breaks were slower paced. ITV had another reason for using slides, clocks and in vision announcers in their continuity - it hid the changes in sync before taking a programme from another station. A recorded device such as a VT machine couldn't handle it
Well, that was certainly true in the 1950s, but technology did move on beyond simple genlocking quite a long time ago. And in any case telecine wasn't affected that way. In-vision announcers were there for other reasons: they provided moving pictures of infinite duration and at the same time provided unique branding for their station, something which UTV still recognises!
JJ
jjne
Tyne Tees used traditional genlocking techniques in 1992, and they can't have been alone. Caused a few problems for the sooper-dooper transmission centre in Leeds as I recall (witness the loss of sync on the Bilsdale feed which was fed through from Newcastle via Leeds to the transmitter in early 1993).
I can assure you we have them here at the BBC. And we never have lengthy periods of static screen and silence.
Except for overnights?
Quote:
Hm. Your view of BBC pres is a wee bit off the mark. As a BBC announcer-director for the last 14 years I can tell you that a) it's always been a lot more than one man with a load of slides and live sources: we used to have to cope with those dreadful Sony cart players and remote-starting VTs that sometimes didn't. And part of our function has always been to cue live sources. and b) yes we use computers to run the show but we still manually intervene in most junctions because automation can't cope with live telly.
I was referring to the past, not today!
In the 'nations', you still self op, yes. In London historically the announcer mixed slides and live sources (eg. the clock and symbol) until the mid 90's when everything went automated.
I worked in (network) BBC pres many years ago and there was little manual intervention in a normal junction then except for counting down and fading up announcers.
Well, that was certainly true in the 1950s, but technology did move on beyond simple genlocking quite a long time ago. And in any case telecine wasn't affected that way. In-vision announcers were there for other reasons: they provided moving pictures of infinite duration and at the same time provided unique branding for their station, something which UTV still recognises!
Before video server playout, junctions were limited in terms of the number of video items by the number of VTRs available. Hence more of a reliance on stills, clocks and symbols.
Imagine the junction from hell that is from Going Live (live from TC7) to Grandstand (TC5) via a news summary (N2) and a Weather forecast (STW2). You've been in NC1 all morning during Going Live with precious little to do. To give News a fighting chance of getting an accurate on-air time from NC1, scheduling have helpfully placed a couple of trails and a slide as well as a Symbol after Going Live. They've then helpfully placed a
different
couple of trails into Grandstand. So in the space of 10 minutes you have 2 junctions all of which have to be started manually because traditionally BBC programmes don't work to fixed off-air times, just a duration which they may or may not hit (often they don't).
Nowadays this kind of junction is still a bit of a nightmare, but server playout is instant start - on demand if you like. When the programme ends and the director hits go ... the junction happens. Easy. Being all off server, the director can preview any of the items in the junction.
In the late 1990s however, all trails were played from individual tapes off a 5" pre-roll. Each channel had a multi-cassette jukebox machine containing all the trail tapes and up to 5 VTRs (though for some reason only 3 coupld be previewed at any one time.) Each channel also had at their disposal one "Instant Start" VTR (which was actually a 1" preroll) for use coming out of live programmes. The director, being a nervous sort of fellow, wanted to watch all the trails before transmission and check against the radio times that they were correct. And of course, needing two instant start trails in the space of a couple of minutes and not trusting the automation or the VT operator one bit, they'd want to have both loaded at once. You'd have to borrow BBC2's instant start machine as well. So in the space of 10 minutes, NC1 would need 2 instant start VTRs, at least a couple of playouts from the multi-cassette playout jukebox and couple of laserdisc symbols, maybe a clock and a sequence of slides from the Picturebox for good measure. Oh, and don't forget at least one standby programme loaded up in case Grandstand didn't make it to air or the fire alarms went off.
Generally of course this kind of junction went without incident. But it was the slides, clocks and laserdisc sources that made it possible. If all these items had been moving video, from tape, there simply wouldn't have been enough sources to get them all loaded up.
Deejay, Am I right in thinking that at one point (before the cart machine, which I assume was the MARC?) trails were run from 1" machines or similar from the VT department? Which would have made them even less inflexible and complicated?
Yes, as far as I know before the MARCs (Panasonic's D3/M2 version of Sony's Betacam SP Odetics machine) everything was run from the old BBC VT department in the basement of TV Centre. I think in later years these were D3 too, as D3 was adopted by the BBC in the early 1990s as the format of choice. Before that however, trails were run from 1" but often voiced and captioned live through an auxiliary mixing suite before going into the network control room! In those days having more than one VT trail per junction (and on more than one channel at a time) was impossible because of this limitation. Another reason why slides were preferred...
Yes, as far as I know before the MARCs (Panasonic's D3/M2 version of Sony's Betacam SP Odetics machine) everything was run from the old BBC VT department in the basement of TV Centre. I think in later years these were D3 too, as D3 was adopted by the BBC in the early 1990s as the format of choice. Before that however, trails were run from 1" but often voiced and captioned live through an auxiliary mixing suite before going into the network control room! In those days having more than one VT trail per junction (and on more than one channel at a time) was impossible because of this limitation. Another reason why slides were preferred...
Which would reinforce my previous point that more slides were used because of technical necessity.
Somewhere there's a video clip of behind the scenes of BBC pres from Did You See in the early 80's. The children's 'holding' slides weren't actually slides but a couple of live camera sources mixed together - one of the balloon background and the other of the programme itself
Yes, some holding items were from rostrum camera (things like Radio Times covers, books etc) and others were genuine 35mm slides transmitted from a slide scanner known as Big Ears, which was apparently so-called because it had two magazines for slides either side of the scanner. Some Forumers may well know about the NODDY device which the BBC also used for getting the mechanical clocks, symbols and generic breakdown slides to air. So a Noddy and a Big Ears... Later of course there was a COW (Symbol) and a GNAT (Clock) ... clearly someone up there had a sense of humour, although of course they were all deadly serious acronyms (Nexus Orthicon Display Device (?), Computer Originated World, Generator of Network Analogue Time)
In later years, electronic still stores were used, but I remember a great number of transparencies that still existed in the Pres Stills archive, which would be rescanned as required.
Can someone clear something up for me?
When Freeview channels are not on air can the cards like:
'FIVEUSA
BACK AT 12PM'
be considered holding slides or not?
The children's 'holding' slides weren't actually slides but a couple of live camera sources mixed together - one of the balloon background and the other of the programme itself
Probably due to there being people available in Pres A between weather forecasts to do it?
I've seen a BBC Birmingham regional afternoon start up which used one of those slides to trail the programme, so presumably slides were made available to regions that wanted them, or they took a still from a recording of a previous day's output.
Can someone clear something up for me?
When Freeview channels are not on air can the cards like:
'FIVEUSA
BACK AT 12PM'
be considered holding slides or not?
It's a slide (even though they aren't optical slides these days the name is still used) , whether it's 'holding' or not depends on what your definition of a 'holding slide' is. It's not a term I've ever come across outside of this site
Later of course there was a COW (Symbol) and a GNAT (Clock) ... clearly someone up there had a sense of humour, although of course they were all deadly serious acronyms (Nexus Orthicon Display Device (?), Computer Originated World, Generator of Network Analogue Time)