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Whataday10,219 posts since 13 Sep 2001
I bought a HD ready TV the other week, it's a Samsung, one of those that seem to be everywhere at the moment.

I only have a standard VBox, but might get the HD VBox+ soon.

Obviously some non HD programmes have hideous compression blemishes. However, at the moment, I notice that even on normal BBC One, programmes that are made in HD look different.

I can't explain it very well, but watching Doctor Who at the moment, and a lot of it looks like it doesn't have a filmic effect applied. On a normal set, it looks filmic as usual.

So, if any of that makes sense, i was wondering, once HD becomes more widespread, will the filmic effect become redundant and impractical?
Orry Verducci1,645 posts since 1 Feb 2005
Doctor Who isn't in HD, and also doesn't have the 'filmic effect' applied to it. The 'filmic effect' generally is achieved by recording 25 frames per second, rather than 50 frames per second (broadcast as 50 fields per seconds, in other words interlaced frames, except on 720p which uses 50 full frames). Therefore, it's the same on HD as it is on SD.
62305823,650 posts since 19 Aug 2005
also It getting strange as to how DVD formats is now different to the TV companies formats,

HD = Sky, ITV, BBC etc

Blue ray = DVD

and you need a Blue ray tv for the disks do you not? which is going to cause alot of people confused
Jon8,054 posts since 11 Apr 2005
623058 posted:
also It getting strange as to how DVD formats is now different to the TV companies formats,

HD = Sky, ITV, BBC etc

Blue ray = DVD

and you need a Blue ray tv for the disks do you not? which is going to cause alot of people confused

Blu Ray is a format that can store HD content and is a rival to the HD DVD format a disc that can store HD content. Ultimately neither will win out right as the technology is moving along to fast IMO.

You dont need a Blu Ray TV for Blu Ray disc, just a HDTV and Blu Ray Disc player (for HD quality). Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
jrothwell972,681 posts since 29 Oct 2006
[quote="623058"]also It getting strange as to how DVD formats is now different to the TV companies formats,

HD = Sky, ITV, BBC etc

Blue ray = DVD

and you need a Blue ray tv for the disks do you not? which is going to cause alot of people confused[/quote

Not necessarily - most Blu-ray players should be able to downscale to SD and send it across a SCART connection. However, HDMI or DVI will give you the best quality.
noggin14,603 posts since 26 Jun 2001
Orry Verducci posted:
Doctor Who isn't in HD

Correct.
Quote:

and also doesn't have the 'filmic effect' applied to it.


Incorrect. Doctor Who is passed through a S&W Alchemist to do a 50i to 25p conversion (which is then carried within a 50i signal, but with effectively no motion between the two fields in each frame) to add the film effect. This is done prior to compositing and grading in Baselight AIUI...

Quote:

The 'filmic effect' generally is achieved by recording 25 frames per second, rather than 50 frames per second (broadcast as 50 fields per seconds, in other words interlaced frames, except on 720p which uses 50 full frames). Therefore, it's the same on HD as it is on SD.


The most common SD filmic effect is generated by shooting at 50i and adding the film-effect 25p look in post, either using a nasty drop-field or similar effect in Avid/FCP etc., or by using a S&W ARC in film-effect mode, or for high-end using an Alchemist...

At HD you can relatively easily shoot in 1080/25p (or 720/25p if you must) but at SD 576/25p cameras are still quite rare, and the bulk of SD "film effect" stuff is shot at 50i using standard DigiBeta or DVCam camcorders, with the 50i to 25p effect added in post.
noggin14,603 posts since 26 Jun 2001
Whataday posted:

I can't explain it very well, but watching Doctor Who at the moment, and a lot of it looks like it doesn't have a filmic effect applied. On a normal set, it looks filmic as usual.


Nothing to do with HD - I suspect your HD TV also has a Motion Flow, Natural Motion, or other motion processing algorithm, which detects film and film-effect content (sometimes only SD) and interpolates new frames to give it a video-like smooth motion look.

I am guessing your new TV is a Philips, Sony, Panasonic or Samsung and quite high-end?

This effect is sold as "smoothing" film content - but it is pure guesswork, and quite often goes horribly wrong on fast moving scenes, or when a scene contains lots of objects going in front and behind each other in different directions.

I would turn it off if you can - and watch the broadcasts as the producer / director intended...

And for info - Doctor Who is shot SD 576/50i with a video look on DigiBeta camcorders, but during post-production is converted to give it a 25p look using a very expensive S&W Alchemist standards converter. This gives it a film-effect - in motion terms, though the production team don't go over the top with film-look in gamma and grading terms.

Torchwood IS shot HD, and is shot 1080/25p native, so doesn't need a film-look to be added in post production.
Whataday10,219 posts since 13 Sep 2001
It's a Samsung. I'll have a look at the settings. At the moment it makes the picture quality look like EastEnders or The Bill. Feels a bit retro!

On a similar note is there any way to lessen the blocky picture which I assume is from digital compression?
noggin14,603 posts since 26 Jun 2001
623058 posted:
also It getting strange as to how DVD formats is now different to the TV companies formats,

HD = Sky, ITV, BBC etc

Blue ray = DVD

and you need a Blue ray tv for the disks do you not? which is going to cause alot of people confused


You are very confused...

HD = 720 or 1080 line picture, rather than SD which is 480 or 576 lines
(You may also hear them described as 750, 1125, 525 and 625 respectively)

Any HD Ready TV sold in Europe will display broadcast HD and BluRay HD pictures.

Broadcast HDTV is, in the UK, nearly universally 1080 lines, whilst in other countries a mix of 1080 and 720 lines is available.

These are shown in Europe at 50Hz - i.e. 50i fields (1080/50i) or 50p frames (720/50p) per second - though the source could also be 25p frames (1080/25p or 720/25p) per second.

In America, Japan etc. they are shown at 60Hz i.e. 60 fields (1080/60i) or 60 frames (720/60p) per second. The source material could also be 24 or more rarely 30 (1080/24p, 720/24p, 1080/30p, 720/30p) frames per second.

BluRay HDTV is slightly different as almost all releases are 24 frames per second (as that is the rate movies are shot in), and thus replayed at either 24p or 60i or 60p, and not at 25p or 50i.

All HD Ready TVs will cope with 1080/50i, 1080/60i, 720/50p, 720/60p etc. Some will additionally cope with 1080/50p, 1080/60p and 1080/24p.

So bottom line - any HD Ready TV will give you an HD picture with Sky HD, Freesat HD etc. and a BluRay player.

Some HD Ready TVs with 24p modes will give an even better picture with BluRay.

I've probably not helped much have I?
noggin14,603 posts since 26 Jun 2001
Whataday posted:
It's a Samsung. I'll have a look at the settings. At the moment it makes the picture quality look like EastEnders or The Bill. Feels a bit retro!


Yep - that is the effect... Look for any digital processing settings - they may not be with brightness/colour etc. they may be more in the set-up areas.

Quote:

On a similar note is there any way to lessen the blocky picture which I assume is from digital compression?


Some of the blockiness is from high levels of compression - but the interpolation used in the film-to-video conversion also can add horrible blockiness as well.

Also - try reducing the sharpness setting. The factory defaults are usually far too high. If your display a Full 1080 model, reduce the sharpness to zero if you are watching an HD content. Any sharpness added will just mask picture content...
Mr-Stabby2,746 posts since 4 Feb 2004
My parents Samsung 50 inch plasma set also has this strange feature which smoothes the motion on such content making it look like interlaced video. God knows why this feature exists, because even my parents who couldn't care less about how such stuff works say that this TV makes even the best films look like they were shot on a camcorder. Which it does! Especially in fast moving scenes, it looks awful.

It only does this on analogue though. On Sky Digital it doesn't have that issue at all.