:-(
A former member
don;t there do that ALREADY?
TV
And probably enjoying the show they are too.
20 years ago with 4 channels to pick from regional shows may well have gained a sizeable audience as there was little else to watch. With so many channels these regional shows gain minimal audiences.
When ILR stations started in the seventies there was a requirement for kids programming and specialist music shows - classical and country used to play on BRMB. With more choice and specialist stations those requirements were dropped.
Regional TV unfortunately apart from news is on the way out - and I think the majority of viewers dont care as long as they get local news. Regional Digital Stations like Solent TV are not viable in the long term - I wonder how long the Milton Keynes Channel will remain?
It's all down to finances - regional tv provides little growth financially, ITV is better long term to plough its funds into quality programming that can achieve big audiences and large advertising income - regional shows are dead in the water I'm afraid and apart from a small majority does Joe Public care? Eastenders on a Thursday night at 7.30pm or a canal boat trip on the Trent - I wonder what most viewers will choose.
Viewing habits have changed considerably over the years - it's a sad time but regional tv and radio as we know it is long since gone.
Brekkie Boy posted:
Grade goes on about these super regions covering half the country - but even so ITV are happy for Central and London to produce the same "regional" content, resulting in people 300 miles away from the Capital getting programmes about Heathrow!
And probably enjoying the show they are too.
20 years ago with 4 channels to pick from regional shows may well have gained a sizeable audience as there was little else to watch. With so many channels these regional shows gain minimal audiences.
When ILR stations started in the seventies there was a requirement for kids programming and specialist music shows - classical and country used to play on BRMB. With more choice and specialist stations those requirements were dropped.
Regional TV unfortunately apart from news is on the way out - and I think the majority of viewers dont care as long as they get local news. Regional Digital Stations like Solent TV are not viable in the long term - I wonder how long the Milton Keynes Channel will remain?
It's all down to finances - regional tv provides little growth financially, ITV is better long term to plough its funds into quality programming that can achieve big audiences and large advertising income - regional shows are dead in the water I'm afraid and apart from a small majority does Joe Public care? Eastenders on a Thursday night at 7.30pm or a canal boat trip on the Trent - I wonder what most viewers will choose.
Viewing habits have changed considerably over the years - it's a sad time but regional tv and radio as we know it is long since gone.
BR
Actually most people I know go for the canal trip nowadays - those programmes seem to have a cult following across the age ranges too - and the downfall of EastEnders has been to the benefit of the regional slots on ITV1.
I'm in no doubt it should be quality over quantity when it comes to regional programming - but this notion viewers aren't interested in it is generally coming from the industry, not the viewers.
If ITV didn't think so, why would they bother rolling out ITV Local - or is that just another attempt to try and shift the content away from ITV1.
TV Times posted:
EastEnders on a Thursday night at 7.30pm or a canal boat trip on the Trent - I wonder what most viewers will choose.
Actually most people I know go for the canal trip nowadays - those programmes seem to have a cult following across the age ranges too - and the downfall of EastEnders has been to the benefit of the regional slots on ITV1.
I'm in no doubt it should be quality over quantity when it comes to regional programming - but this notion viewers aren't interested in it is generally coming from the industry, not the viewers.
If ITV didn't think so, why would they bother rolling out ITV Local - or is that just another attempt to try and shift the content away from ITV1.
GC
Regional TV unfortunately apart from news is on the way out - and I think the majority of viewers dont care as long as they get local news. Regional Digital Stations like Solent TV are not viable in the long term - I wonder how long the Milton Keynes Channel will remain?
It's all down to finances - regional tv provides little growth financially, ITV is better long term to plough its funds into quality programming that can achieve big audiences and large advertising income - regional shows are dead in the water I'm afraid and apart from a small majority does Joe Public care?
Eastenders on a Thursday night at 7.30pm or a canal boat trip on the Trent - I wonder what most viewers will choose.
.
So many assumptions. So few facts.
Regional Advertising is ITV's biggest growth area. It makes up 10% of total revenue (which for THE major advert network is pretty impressive)
Local/regional TV advertising in the UK
has the one of the smallest percentages of total ad spend of all major TV markets in the word. Has huge potential for growth.
Local digital station have failed becouse of poor business operations and content NOT becouse the model is flawed..your argument is the equivalent of saying your local shoe shop went bust, nobody wants shoes anymore.
Ofcom research has over 65% of people wanting local /county news on TV - provided it is of good quality.
Local/Regional news may not work for ITV1 anymore (you cant get ratings and reach with just one early peak news show in this day and age) But it can work on Digital satellite (half of all TV viewers) and on the new digital local services ofcom have been looking at (http://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv/psb_review/digital_local/) with the right format and good production values.
As for the ITV shows against eastenders; many perform BETTER in terms of share than the national equivalent in similar 'counter soap' slots. Indead several shows in english regions outperform ITV network primetime shows in their region.
TV Times posted:
Regional TV unfortunately apart from news is on the way out - and I think the majority of viewers dont care as long as they get local news. Regional Digital Stations like Solent TV are not viable in the long term - I wonder how long the Milton Keynes Channel will remain?
It's all down to finances - regional tv provides little growth financially, ITV is better long term to plough its funds into quality programming that can achieve big audiences and large advertising income - regional shows are dead in the water I'm afraid and apart from a small majority does Joe Public care?
Eastenders on a Thursday night at 7.30pm or a canal boat trip on the Trent - I wonder what most viewers will choose.
.
So many assumptions. So few facts.
Regional Advertising is ITV's biggest growth area. It makes up 10% of total revenue (which for THE major advert network is pretty impressive)
Local/regional TV advertising in the UK
has the one of the smallest percentages of total ad spend of all major TV markets in the word. Has huge potential for growth.
Local digital station have failed becouse of poor business operations and content NOT becouse the model is flawed..your argument is the equivalent of saying your local shoe shop went bust, nobody wants shoes anymore.
Ofcom research has over 65% of people wanting local /county news on TV - provided it is of good quality.
Local/Regional news may not work for ITV1 anymore (you cant get ratings and reach with just one early peak news show in this day and age) But it can work on Digital satellite (half of all TV viewers) and on the new digital local services ofcom have been looking at (http://www.ofcom.org.uk/tv/psb_review/digital_local/) with the right format and good production values.
As for the ITV shows against eastenders; many perform BETTER in terms of share than the national equivalent in similar 'counter soap' slots. Indead several shows in english regions outperform ITV network primetime shows in their region.
TV
tvmercia
Founding member
it is important to remember that "regional tv" now equates to "dry, semi-serious, worthy" regional tv, because itv campaigned so hard to rid themselves of the need to provide the other stuff, a good example is central weekend live which used to do great in the ratings.
it seems silly to put central extra, usually a studio debate about immigration or crime up against eastenders and then despair when it doesn't do great in the ratings.
it seems silly to put central extra, usually a studio debate about immigration or crime up against eastenders and then despair when it doesn't do great in the ratings.
:-(
A former member
> several shows in english regions outperform ITV network primetime shows in their region.
That's not hard it must be said
ITV have bleated endlessly about PSB being the noose around their neck, how it's responsible for their decline, etc etc.
Not once have they had the guts to admit that it's because far too many of their non-PSB shows are rubbish and devoid of any imagination.
The one and only reason that regional programmes do not do well on ITV is that they are poorly promoted and under-funded, made "because they have to" with no passion.
Contrast that with the days of TTTV's "Friday Live" garnering 67% of the Friday night viewing audience in the early 1980s (and done on the ultra-cheap), and it becomes obvious that "regional=unpopular" is a gross oversimplification.
It would be very easy for ITV to pay for regional programming by cutting back on some of the useless tat they show in the periphery and replace it with cheap imported filler. If you're going to get no audience anyway, why spend money on it if it's of no real cultural value either ?
That's not hard it must be said
ITV have bleated endlessly about PSB being the noose around their neck, how it's responsible for their decline, etc etc.
Not once have they had the guts to admit that it's because far too many of their non-PSB shows are rubbish and devoid of any imagination.
The one and only reason that regional programmes do not do well on ITV is that they are poorly promoted and under-funded, made "because they have to" with no passion.
Contrast that with the days of TTTV's "Friday Live" garnering 67% of the Friday night viewing audience in the early 1980s (and done on the ultra-cheap), and it becomes obvious that "regional=unpopular" is a gross oversimplification.
It would be very easy for ITV to pay for regional programming by cutting back on some of the useless tat they show in the periphery and replace it with cheap imported filler. If you're going to get no audience anyway, why spend money on it if it's of no real cultural value either ?
CW
I think you'll find that those smaller regions existed to provide a regional television service to the area they serve. It's merely that now they're only allowed to provide news.
I'd also have an easier time swallowing the regional cutbacks in ITV if it did genuinely result in improvement on the national service. But it doesn't. The last new comission I watched on ITV was a docu-drama about the construction of the Titanic - and that was 18 months ago in January 2006. 'ITV1' just gets worse and worse and there's less and less (or now, nothing but news) that I watch on it, despite all the restructuring in it's favour.
It's digital lineup has deteriorated despite more favourable operating conditions - ITV2 launched into fragmented ownership (with UNM, HTV and Border Television still operating separately and requiring Carlton and Granada to pay rent for the DTT space in affected regions), broadcast only in England and Wales and then only on DTT and NTL (not Telewest or Eurobell) cable.
Today it broadcasts to the whole of the UK, is owned by solely by a merged ITV plc which controls all but 4 ITV regions, and is carried on all platforms. It's operating conditions are much more favourable. Yet it's content is watered down beyond any recognition of what it was at launch.
Other digital offerings are nothing to write home about either - indeed the only thing worth writing about is that their rolling news channel failed.
When people speak about these changes as being 'necessary' and when ITV promise that it's important to safeguard ITV's future, I wonder just what future they're going to safeguard - they've got the most favourable operating conditions of any commercial broadcaster, yet they don't seem able to stop themselves from sliding.
Says who? Yes the BBC also provide regional TV news, yes they do a good job at it, but we need ITV to do it aswell otherwise we will only get one editorial stance on the news. Where are these 'other ways' you mention? ILR news which is just agency copy read out with little scope for onsite coverage? Websites which get updated once a day? Weekly newspapers?
Despite the expanded range of media now available, TV is still generally the best source of regional news in terms of content and production values.
But you wont have quality over quantity - TV news is the best quality regional news service available to most areas.
Yes there are requirements, because commercial or not, ITV plc and SMG are both parent companies to regional companies which are required to provide a regional structure because that is what they entered into a franchise agreement to provide - as I said before, they are franchisees operating under a franchise agreement. They are not unrestricted capitalist companies. Under any normal franchise agreement, the franchisor would allready have re-advertised most if not all of the franchises which ITV plc and SMG hold.
With a view to what? How will tweaking the region map improve things significantly? And what are you defining as a 'smaller area'? Will this involve suggestions like merging Yorkshire & Tyne Tees, or Westcountry with HTV West, or Meridian with Anglia?
How can a route map for making regional news viable involve making it less regional? IMO, many 'smaller' regions are too big as it is. Westcountry in particular is ridiculously over-sized, with a patch completely covering two counties, spreading well into a further two, covering two major cities and countless major towns, along with a huge range of culturally diverse smaller communities.
I accept that the current region map was devised for times past - it was devised for a time when an independent company had to be able to viably operate a complete, profitable, but heavily regulated commercial broadcasting operation in that patch. Today, one company owns almost all the regions, countless stations have relocated from expensive city-centre locations out to sheds on an industrial estate, the replication of staff positions and equipment is gone, the regulation is all but gone, it should be easier and cheaper to provide a regional news service than ever before - ITV should be able to demerge stations and provide more regional news operations than were possible in the past - yet instead they claim they need to cut back.
Cut backs and merging regions will not be good for regional provision, and based on their past record, it won't make a jot of difference to network programming either.
cwathen
Founding member
Quote:
Grow up lads! Do you want to see ITV survive, or just become another Murdoch poodle? Most smaller regions only exist to provide news - the days of big studios and mega staff have gone. If ITV is to survive it needs to adapt, otherwise you won't see it in ten years time.
I think you'll find that those smaller regions existed to provide a regional television service to the area they serve. It's merely that now they're only allowed to provide news.
I'd also have an easier time swallowing the regional cutbacks in ITV if it did genuinely result in improvement on the national service. But it doesn't. The last new comission I watched on ITV was a docu-drama about the construction of the Titanic - and that was 18 months ago in January 2006. 'ITV1' just gets worse and worse and there's less and less (or now, nothing but news) that I watch on it, despite all the restructuring in it's favour.
It's digital lineup has deteriorated despite more favourable operating conditions - ITV2 launched into fragmented ownership (with UNM, HTV and Border Television still operating separately and requiring Carlton and Granada to pay rent for the DTT space in affected regions), broadcast only in England and Wales and then only on DTT and NTL (not Telewest or Eurobell) cable.
Today it broadcasts to the whole of the UK, is owned by solely by a merged ITV plc which controls all but 4 ITV regions, and is carried on all platforms. It's operating conditions are much more favourable. Yet it's content is watered down beyond any recognition of what it was at launch.
Other digital offerings are nothing to write home about either - indeed the only thing worth writing about is that their rolling news channel failed.
When people speak about these changes as being 'necessary' and when ITV promise that it's important to safeguard ITV's future, I wonder just what future they're going to safeguard - they've got the most favourable operating conditions of any commercial broadcaster, yet they don't seem able to stop themselves from sliding.
Quote:
It's a shame considering ITV's heritage, but these days less and less people find the need for a local ITV service. There are far more ways of getting local news, and it's never been a massive ratings puller anyway so it makes sense.
Says who? Yes the BBC also provide regional TV news, yes they do a good job at it, but we need ITV to do it aswell otherwise we will only get one editorial stance on the news. Where are these 'other ways' you mention? ILR news which is just agency copy read out with little scope for onsite coverage? Websites which get updated once a day? Weekly newspapers?
Despite the expanded range of media now available, TV is still generally the best source of regional news in terms of content and production values.
Quote:
I'd rather quality over quantity.
But you wont have quality over quantity - TV news is the best quality regional news service available to most areas.
Quote:
I think we have to accept that there is no requirement for commercial companies such as ITV & SMG to operate a regional structure.
Yes there are requirements, because commercial or not, ITV plc and SMG are both parent companies to regional companies which are required to provide a regional structure because that is what they entered into a franchise agreement to provide - as I said before, they are franchisees operating under a franchise agreement. They are not unrestricted capitalist companies. Under any normal franchise agreement, the franchisor would allready have re-advertised most if not all of the franchises which ITV plc and SMG hold.
Quote:
I'm well aware of that. I was thinking more of merging or redesigning the smaller areas, they don't have to stick to franchise borders any more the only limit is transmitter configuration
With a view to what? How will tweaking the region map improve things significantly? And what are you defining as a 'smaller area'? Will this involve suggestions like merging Yorkshire & Tyne Tees, or Westcountry with HTV West, or Meridian with Anglia?
How can a route map for making regional news viable involve making it less regional? IMO, many 'smaller' regions are too big as it is. Westcountry in particular is ridiculously over-sized, with a patch completely covering two counties, spreading well into a further two, covering two major cities and countless major towns, along with a huge range of culturally diverse smaller communities.
I accept that the current region map was devised for times past - it was devised for a time when an independent company had to be able to viably operate a complete, profitable, but heavily regulated commercial broadcasting operation in that patch. Today, one company owns almost all the regions, countless stations have relocated from expensive city-centre locations out to sheds on an industrial estate, the replication of staff positions and equipment is gone, the regulation is all but gone, it should be easier and cheaper to provide a regional news service than ever before - ITV should be able to demerge stations and provide more regional news operations than were possible in the past - yet instead they claim they need to cut back.
Cut backs and merging regions will not be good for regional provision, and based on their past record, it won't make a jot of difference to network programming either.
:-(
A former member
People are missing what is probably the hidden agenda in all of this -- namely that several of the small regions have successful, but nonetheless expensive and therefore "inefficient" regional news operations. Meanwhile larger regional news operations are weak, in some cases extremely weak, against the BBC.
If they get rid of the smaller, more successful operations, the overall viewing audiences for the regional news programmes will fall further -- killing two birds with one stone. On the one hand, ITV will be able to achieve further "efficiency targets" through the sacking of more staff, and on the other, the even weaker standing of the resulting macro-regional news operations will allow ITV to push for complete cessation much more quickly.
The reason they are not going for the jugular just yet, is because they don't want to upset the staff in the larger stations too early, as they'll be useful for a few more years. But mark my words, they'll be gone as well within the next decade.
If they get rid of the smaller, more successful operations, the overall viewing audiences for the regional news programmes will fall further -- killing two birds with one stone. On the one hand, ITV will be able to achieve further "efficiency targets" through the sacking of more staff, and on the other, the even weaker standing of the resulting macro-regional news operations will allow ITV to push for complete cessation much more quickly.
The reason they are not going for the jugular just yet, is because they don't want to upset the staff in the larger stations too early, as they'll be useful for a few more years. But mark my words, they'll be gone as well within the next decade.
HC
By the way chaps, just read this thread and I can't help wondering where all those that said Lord Grade was the saviour of UK independant television and was going to save ITV single handed, and was now going to increase the on screen regional/regionality presence on ITV, because his uncle was one of the founding fathers of the network, ect, ect have all gone to with this matter?
Seems to me the words 'Wolf' 'Sheep' and 'Clothing' spring increasingly to mind...
Seems to me the words 'Wolf' 'Sheep' and 'Clothing' spring increasingly to mind...