CW
There's no hard and fast rule for the number of stations you can fit into the space of one analogue channel. At present, the 16QAM multiplexes (BBC and Crown Castle) can hold 4 TV channels, whilst the 64QAM multiplexes (D3&4 and SDN) can hold 6. You can also fit radio services on too in the remaining capacity.
With greater compression, you can get more on but the picture quality goes down.
There are also other ways of pretending you have more services such as having timeshare channels (like UK BrightIdeas and FTN on Freeview).
But on two points though, firstly there won't be any big switch off in 2010. It just won't happen. The market won't be ready. Analogue terrestrial will still be here 10 years from now. I'm thinking of 2015 for a switch off date at the earliest. Secondly where did you get 64 multiplexes from? There aren't 64 allocated channels in the UHF band, and even if there were you can't allocate every channel due to the interference with other transmitters. At best you could add another 5 or 6 multiplexes with analogue terrestrial gone.
cwathen
Founding member
Quote:
Just a random thought really... first of all how many digital stations can one analogue transponder hold. Because if it were something around 5, then Freeview has a really good potential after the big switch off in 2010 and they get 64 transponders to use. Interesting times ahead?
There's no hard and fast rule for the number of stations you can fit into the space of one analogue channel. At present, the 16QAM multiplexes (BBC and Crown Castle) can hold 4 TV channels, whilst the 64QAM multiplexes (D3&4 and SDN) can hold 6. You can also fit radio services on too in the remaining capacity.
With greater compression, you can get more on but the picture quality goes down.
There are also other ways of pretending you have more services such as having timeshare channels (like UK BrightIdeas and FTN on Freeview).
But on two points though, firstly there won't be any big switch off in 2010. It just won't happen. The market won't be ready. Analogue terrestrial will still be here 10 years from now. I'm thinking of 2015 for a switch off date at the earliest. Secondly where did you get 64 multiplexes from? There aren't 64 allocated channels in the UHF band, and even if there were you can't allocate every channel due to the interference with other transmitters. At best you could add another 5 or 6 multiplexes with analogue terrestrial gone.
BR
I'm pretty certain we've had a similar discussion here before and it was said that non of the space used by analogue channels is intended for digital terrestrial TV - it would be sold off for something else.
Personally, I think Freeview should get space equal to double it's current output.
Personally, I think Freeview should get space equal to double it's current output.
CO
Germany will have switched off by then, so it will happen by 2010, but maybe not in UK.
Politburo member Jowell has been addressing the media appartchiks who have gathered in Cambridge.
She reiterates that the target date for complete and total analog switchoff remains 2010, irrespective of previously mentioned conditions being met.
She clearly indicates that she does not believe in allowing the free enterprise system to provide the stimulus for conversion from analog transmission to DVB-t.
She explains how the switchoff will be achieved.
The full story can be found at <http://www.dtg.org.UK/latest/latest_jowell_rts.htm>
cwathen posted:
But on two points though, firstly there won't be any big switch off in 2010. It just won't happen.
Germany will have switched off by then, so it will happen by 2010, but maybe not in UK.
Politburo member Jowell has been addressing the media appartchiks who have gathered in Cambridge.
She reiterates that the target date for complete and total analog switchoff remains 2010, irrespective of previously mentioned conditions being met.
Quote:
"we are still on track to complete the process by 2010"
cwathen posted:
The market won't be ready. Analogue terrestrial will still be here 10 years from now.
She clearly indicates that she does not believe in allowing the free enterprise system to provide the stimulus for conversion from analog transmission to DVB-t.
Quote:
"we cannot leave it to the market alone to get everyone into the digital world."
She explains how the switchoff will be achieved.
Quote:
"switchover will happen region by region"
The full story can be found at <http://www.dtg.org.UK/latest/latest_jowell_rts.htm>
CW
cwathen
Founding member
Whatever she says, she is living in cloud cuckoo land. Digital replacements for some devices which currently only exist in analogue tuner form aren't even on the marketplace yet.
Short of massive government investment on developing and marketing new technology, and possibly having to hand out free equipment to some consumers, 2010 is an impossible target.
As I've said many times before, VHF-UHF switchover took 21 years to accomplish - and that was arguably a simpler process in a time when for most households that meant replacing a single TV receiver and nothing else.
If analogue is switched off in 2010 it will only have been 12 years after digital was introduced - 9 years short of the VHF-UHF switchover time. And if anything, a longer period is required this time around with their being more equipment to replace.
Tessa Jowell clearly has no idea what she is talking about - anyone who comes out with lines like 'getting everyone into the digital world' (and I believe in the past she's spoken about the 'promise of digital television')is just a subscriber to 'everything must be digital!!!!!' histeria without any understanding at all of how to go about doing that.
She can prattle on about 2010 as much as she likes, it just isn't going to happen.
Short of massive government investment on developing and marketing new technology, and possibly having to hand out free equipment to some consumers, 2010 is an impossible target.
As I've said many times before, VHF-UHF switchover took 21 years to accomplish - and that was arguably a simpler process in a time when for most households that meant replacing a single TV receiver and nothing else.
If analogue is switched off in 2010 it will only have been 12 years after digital was introduced - 9 years short of the VHF-UHF switchover time. And if anything, a longer period is required this time around with their being more equipment to replace.
Tessa Jowell clearly has no idea what she is talking about - anyone who comes out with lines like 'getting everyone into the digital world' (and I believe in the past she's spoken about the 'promise of digital television')is just a subscriber to 'everything must be digital!!!!!' histeria without any understanding at all of how to go about doing that.
She can prattle on about 2010 as much as she likes, it just isn't going to happen.
CO
Am I correct in inferring that you have little faith in the words of a loyal, patriotic, and fine upstanding member of Her Britannic Majesty's government, and that you are also casting aspersions as to her competency in her position as Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport?
In some quarters, even the mere notion of such a thing, would be considered a treacherous act of thoughtcrime .
In some quarters, even the mere notion of such a thing, would be considered a treacherous act of thoughtcrime .
NJ
I think its pretty obvious through history that whoever the leader of the party puts into whatever position, the public name in charge of that position (Jowell, Blunkett, Brown etc) will quite clearly be able to whitter on about this that and the other and have absolutely no idea what they're on about.
It's all spin anyway, I agree with Cwathen, we'll be lucky to get anywhere near switch-off in 2010, and even that used to be 2006, only pushed it back as they knew full well that it wouldn't be achievable by then. You'll see, they'll push it back in a few years time to 2015, if not 2020.
Massive government investment is not going to happen, although you could say that if they want to go and flatten foreign countries then suddenly a billion pounds turns up out of nowhere, yet they refuse to bail out the school funding crisis which is, what, a third of that, claiming "no money available."
Add to this of course that equipment is still being sold today that will be, assuming 2010 is met, effectively obsolete in just seven years. All these new video recorders, TVs and so on are all only geared to traditional analogue TV, so to get digital TV on each of these you need an appropriate box, which only come with one tuner themselves. Okay, Sky + bleats about watching one programme while recording another but its all new technology, still thousands of people who can't work a simple video recorder let alone Sky +.
Hear, hear!
Neil Jones
Founding member
Corin posted:
Am I correct in inferring that you have little faith in the words of a loyal, patriotic, and fine upstanding member of Her Britannic Majesty's government, and that you are also casting aspersions as to her competency in her position as Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport?
I think its pretty obvious through history that whoever the leader of the party puts into whatever position, the public name in charge of that position (Jowell, Blunkett, Brown etc) will quite clearly be able to whitter on about this that and the other and have absolutely no idea what they're on about.
It's all spin anyway, I agree with Cwathen, we'll be lucky to get anywhere near switch-off in 2010, and even that used to be 2006, only pushed it back as they knew full well that it wouldn't be achievable by then. You'll see, they'll push it back in a few years time to 2015, if not 2020.
cwathen posted:
Short of massive government investment on developing and marketing new technology, and possibly having to hand out free equipment to some consumers, 2010 is an impossible target.
Massive government investment is not going to happen, although you could say that if they want to go and flatten foreign countries then suddenly a billion pounds turns up out of nowhere, yet they refuse to bail out the school funding crisis which is, what, a third of that, claiming "no money available."
cwathen posted:
If analogue is switched off in 2010 it will only have been 12 years after digital was introduced - 9 years short of the VHF-UHF switchover time. And if anything, a longer period is required this time around with their being more equipment to replace.
Add to this of course that equipment is still being sold today that will be, assuming 2010 is met, effectively obsolete in just seven years. All these new video recorders, TVs and so on are all only geared to traditional analogue TV, so to get digital TV on each of these you need an appropriate box, which only come with one tuner themselves. Okay, Sky + bleats about watching one programme while recording another but its all new technology, still thousands of people who can't work a simple video recorder let alone Sky +.
cwathen posted:
Tessa Jowell clearly has no idea what she is talking about - anyone who comes out with lines like 'getting everyone into the digital world' (and I believe in the past she's spoken about the 'promise of digital television')is just a subscriber to 'everything must be digital!!!!!' histeria without any understanding at all of how to go about doing that.
Hear, hear!