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noggin14,316 posts since 26 Jun 2001

There was a fader involved though as the cut to/from the commercial break was always done via a down-and-up, rather than the simple cut that most other regions employed.

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You don’t need a physical fader to generate fades ! In fact probably 90% of fades etc you see on TV are not manually controlled via a physical fader


True - but on any multicamera show you don't see many people use the auto trans button for mixes - only for wipes (or to bring on keys) - though people may use macros or similar with mixes in them.

GVG mixers in the GVG200 era had the great option of PST-VIA-BLACK alongside MIX and WIPE - which would let you do a down-and-up (or 'V'-fade) using two paddles of the mixer T-bar. Great in English regions for leaving network.
bluecortina839 posts since 26 Jul 2012

There was a fader involved though as the cut to/from the commercial break was always done via a down-and-up, rather than the simple cut that most other regions employed.

.


You don’t need a physical fader to generate fades ! In fact probably 90% of fades etc you see on TV are not manually controlled via a physical fader


True - but on any multicamera show you don't see many people use the auto trans button for mixes - only for wipes (or to bring on keys) - though people may use macros or similar with mixes in them.

GVG mixers in the GVG200 era had the great option of PST-VIA-BLACK alongside MIX and WIPE - which would let you do a down-and-up (or 'V'-fade) using two paddles of the mixer T-bar. Great in English regions for leaving network.


The 200 inherited that feature from it’s Dad - the 300.
deejay2,877 posts since 5 Jan 2003
Central (South) Oxford
The desk I use (GVG Kayak DD2) also has Blk-PST and bloody useful it is too. Used more than you might think, for example after the recent DEC Appeal, the opt ident was immediately afterwards, and after the Ten ended on a montage of Notre Dame the other night.
Two minutes regions...
noggin14,316 posts since 26 Jun 2001
The desk I use (GVG Kayak DD2) also has Blk-PST and bloody useful it is too. Used more than you might think, for example after the recent DEC Appeal, the opt ident was immediately afterwards, and after the Ten ended on a montage of Notre Dame the other night.


I guess now analogue is switched off digital can do something other than a cut! (In the days of analogue + digital opting - digital was tally-slaved with a delay to match the MPEG2 codec delay on the digital network wasn't it?)
ttt

There was a fader involved though as the cut to/from the commercial break was always done via a down-and-up, rather than the simple cut that most other regions employed.

.


You don’t need a physical fader to generate fades ! In fact probably 90% of fades etc you see on TV are not manually controlled via a physical fader


I accept that I had my terminology all wrong earlier; I thought a fader could refer to both the physical fader itself, and to the technology sitting behind it.

Still, it has led to an interesting side-conversation about mixing equipment, which I'm finding fascinating. That GVG 300 in particular is a stunningly-impressive piece of kit for the late 1970s, from the trade video on Youtube. That must have been state of the art at the time right?
noggin14,316 posts since 26 Jun 2001

There was a fader involved though as the cut to/from the commercial break was always done via a down-and-up, rather than the simple cut that most other regions employed.

.


You don’t need a physical fader to generate fades ! In fact probably 90% of fades etc you see on TV are not manually controlled via a physical fader


I accept that I had my terminology all wrong earlier; I thought a fader could refer to both the physical fader itself, and to the technology sitting behind it.

Still, it has led to an interesting side-conversation about mixing equipment, which I'm finding fascinating. That GVG 300 in particular is a stunningly-impressive piece of kit for the late 1970s, from the trade video on Youtube. That must have been state of the art at the time right?


State of the art and reassuringly expensive. The lower-spec GVG1600/1650 was a workhorse in many studios and OB trucks.

CDL mixers were also quite popular at the time. The BBC had a huge one in their large CMCCR OB truck (which itself had no cameras - it was used for combining the outputs from other trucks on major events) and BBC News was based around CDLs too. One nice feature of the CDL was that it had built in synchronisers/DVEs allowing you to cope with non-sync sources, 'freeze' a VT before it ran out, and do shunts, slides, pushes etc. at the ME level (without having to use an out-board DVE) (I believe that was also an option on the GVG300 at one point)
Technologist39 posts since 10 Oct 2018
London London
GVG 300 had multiple re entry ..you could put the Mix effects banks in any order ...
That was done by a two stage mixing system which was clever but did not quite work ..
But made the signal delay about 1 and a bit M/E long
So it was replaced by a delay line system ...so it was 4 M/E signal delay.
And it integrated with an NEC DVE ..... GVG mixer about £270k DVE just over £500k
But a very easy to operate “incandescent dining table “

The bbc news CDLs were all week:and good until graphics sources arrived with video and key .. so they have to be hard timed ....
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deejay2,877 posts since 5 Jan 2003
Central (South) Oxford
The desk I use (GVG Kayak DD2) also has Blk-PST and bloody useful it is too. Used more than you might think, for example after the recent DEC Appeal, the opt ident was immediately afterwards, and after the Ten ended on a montage of Notre Dame the other night.


I guess now analogue is switched off digital can do something other than a cut! (In the days of analogue + digital opting - digital was tally-slaved with a delay to match the MPEG2 codec delay on the digital network wasn't it?)


Yes, though most regions still cut most of the time. I often mix back to the Six/Ten's titles after regional headlines, but cut after the halfways as it's to a Studio E wide. I only occasionally down-and-up and it's usually in the sort of circumstances described above.
Two minutes regions...
bluecortina839 posts since 26 Jul 2012
https://vimeo.com/193287285


Great video - and actually a lot of those concepts are still the same in modern vision mixers.


LWT had 4 of these mixers. Older viewers may have picked up that the A and B switch banks for each ME and the PGM/PST banks were swapped over top to bottom. The LWT vision mixers (people!) could not understand why the 'Cut' button strip would not be closest to their fingers as it was likely to be the most often used buttons - so GVG swapped them all over for LWT. The 4th mixer, in transmission, not only had that mod but all the buttons were reversed from left to right!

The mixers were used in conjunction with standalone Quantel DPE effects systems as Peter Lewis hints at.
Last edited by bluecortina on 24 April 2019 9:44pm
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