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Si-Co2,202 posts since 2 Oct 2003
Tyne Tees Look North (North East)
I don't think there is any doubt that they could cut away in vision leaving network audio or vice versa. Setting up a gallery that couldn't do that would be a challenge.


Yes - and sorry if it sounds like I’m duplicating earlier discussion - but I can’t think of any reason they would ever need to opt out in vision or sound only, and I saw no examples of any region ever doing this intentionally (to put a fault caption or similar to air). The opts back to the Channel 4 break fillers in some regions looked a little more
“manual” than an up and down fade through black, but often they looked like hard cuts from and to the black events at the start and end of the commercial break - so if they had a standard gallery, they didn’t always make use of the functions available to them.

My memory is very hazy now, but I saw the Channel 4 area at Tyne Tees in 1987. It was a bank of about 4 monitors which showed the incoming raw C4 feed, their outgoing feed to the transmitter, and screens for previewing and cueing up ads. The “control panel” seemed to have a number of buttons but not faders (if I remember rightly - it was so long ago!)
Cut out the coupon in your TV Times!
ttt
I don't think there is any doubt that they could cut away in vision leaving network audio or vice versa. Setting up a gallery that couldn't do that would be a challenge.


Seriously, watch some output from Tyne Tees's output carefully. Their gallery was not capable of running with more than one sound channel at once (plus the announcers mic as an overlay, which is why you frequently heard the clunk before the down-and-up to the static ident). The sound followed the vision at all times. When they faded from one source to another the sound from source A would be all that was heard until the moment a transition to source B was complete, at which point there would be a momentary sound break and sound from source B would kick in.

This was the case for over a decade so it must have been by design. It was an odd setup compared to other companies but it did mean that having sound from one source and vision from another would have been very difficult to do accidentally.
Inspector Sands13,925 posts since 25 Aug 2004

My memory is very hazy now, but I saw the Channel 4 area at Tyne Tees in 1987. It was a bank of about 4 monitors which showed the incoming raw C4 feed, their outgoing feed to the transmitter, and screens for previewing and cueing up ads. The “control panel” seemed to have a number of buttons but not faders (if I remember rightly - it was so long ago!)

That's all they'd need really, it's just inserting adverts. No need to have anything fancy, just the ability to cut a tape machine to air and run it.
Markymark7,236 posts since 13 Dec 2004
Meridian (North) South Today

My memory is very hazy now, but I saw the Channel 4 area at Tyne Tees in 1987. It was a bank of about 4 monitors which showed the incoming raw C4 feed, their outgoing feed to the transmitter, and screens for previewing and cueing up ads. The “control panel” seemed to have a number of buttons but not faders (if I remember rightly - it was so long ago!)

That's all they'd need really, it's just inserting adverts. No need to have anything fancy, just the ability to cut a tape machine to air and run it.


Even simpler was the EastEnders gallery in the 90s, just an 8x1 router panel, I doubt it’s any more complex today ?
noggin14,603 posts since 26 Jun 2001

My memory is very hazy now, but I saw the Channel 4 area at Tyne Tees in 1987. It was a bank of about 4 monitors which showed the incoming raw C4 feed, their outgoing feed to the transmitter, and screens for previewing and cueing up ads. The “control panel” seemed to have a number of buttons but not faders (if I remember rightly - it was so long ago!)

That's all they'd need really, it's just inserting adverts. No need to have anything fancy, just the ability to cut a tape machine to air and run it.


Even simpler was the EastEnders gallery in the 90s, just an 8x1 router panel, I doubt it’s any more complex today ?


Indeed - AIUI EastEnders multicamera stuff is still cut on a router. No need for a vision mixer if you only need cuts only, and have a router that can provide tallies to cameras.
Neil Jones5,576 posts since 23 Dec 2001
Central (West) Midlands Today
This example is when Channel 4 couldn't decide if they wanted to go to a break or not, so they played the rest of the film anyway.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/teamblackdragons01/8982215462/


How can you decide whether to go to a break or not on a prerecorded program?
More likely thats a stray end-of-part slide insert that somebody forgot to remove.

You don't just randomly decide to shoehorn some commercials in ad-hoc as you broadcast it, there are rules about where they can go.
1
Si-Co gave kudos
ttt

My memory is very hazy now, but I saw the Channel 4 area at Tyne Tees in 1987. It was a bank of about 4 monitors which showed the incoming raw C4 feed, their outgoing feed to the transmitter, and screens for previewing and cueing up ads. The “control panel” seemed to have a number of buttons but not faders (if I remember rightly - it was so long ago!)


There was a fader involved though as the cut to/from the commercial break was always done via a down-and-up, rather than the simple cut that most other regions employed.

Pretty sure most of it was automated, with some manual intervention as you say to cue the tape as necessary before each junction, and a manual override.
Markymark7,236 posts since 13 Dec 2004
Meridian (North) South Today

There was a fader involved though as the cut to/from the commercial break was always done via a down-and-up, rather than the simple cut that most other regions employed.

.


You don’t need a physical fader to generate fades ! In fact probably 90% of fades etc you see on TV are not manually controlled via a physical fader
ttt

There was a fader involved though as the cut to/from the commercial break was always done via a down-and-up, rather than the simple cut that most other regions employed.

.


You don’t need a physical fader to generate fades ! In fact probably 90% of fades etc you see on TV are not manually controlled via a physical fader


True but this was 1982 this started, when not as much automation existed as even the late 80s. I don't think I implied a physical fader anyway (I just said a fader existed in the setup), indeed the second sentence said the opposite.
Markymark7,236 posts since 13 Dec 2004
Meridian (North) South Today

There was a fader involved though as the cut to/from the commercial break was always done via a down-and-up, rather than the simple cut that most other regions employed.

.


You don’t need a physical fader to generate fades ! In fact probably 90% of fades etc you see on TV are not manually controlled via a physical fader


True but this was 1982 this started, when not as much automation existed as even the late 80s. I don't think I implied a physical fader anyway (I just said a fader existed in the setup), indeed the second sentence said the opposite.


Auto-Transition (as it's called) was around on early 80s mixers (or switchers if you're from Sony or the USA).
The GVG-100 springs to mind.

Something in my mind says that (Michael) Cox made a 2x 1 'auto cross fade' box in the late 70s ? It would have been a lot cheaper than tieing up a full blown mixer.