RJ
It's a good song, Eurovision 1990 did have a few entries linked to the unification of Germany, break up of the USSR. A new future emphasis. I guess the UK one had some link I guess. Norway with Brandenburger Tor (Brandenburg Gate), Germany with Frei Zu Leben (Free To Live) and Italy with Insieme (Together) certainly did.
cylon6 posted:
I thought the UK had a great song sveral years ago from Emma called Give A Little Love Back To The World (I think).
It's a good song, Eurovision 1990 did have a few entries linked to the unification of Germany, break up of the USSR. A new future emphasis. I guess the UK one had some link I guess. Norway with Brandenburger Tor (Brandenburg Gate), Germany with Frei Zu Leben (Free To Live) and Italy with Insieme (Together) certainly did.
NG
Trust me to pick the argument with the one person who takes Eurovision seriously!
I don't take it THAT seriously. It is a great bit of fun - but the way it is viewed in the UK (and a couple of other countries these days) is SO different to the way it is viewed in others is unbelievable. It really DOES mean something to many countries. In Malta their performers are treated like, err, pop stars and are mobbed at the airport. When Chiara came second she was treated like she had won ISTR...
The contest was conceived as a way of uniting Europe in song - remember it started only 10 years after we'd been bombing the hell out of each other... In recent years it has served to highlight that there are still groupings of loyalties and rivalries across the continent (and the extra bits tacked on by the EBU) - but we have to be careful not to create further first and second class nations by altering the voting system. It took quite a few years to get to the current 12,10,8,7-1 system - but AIUI there has always been a fundamental "every country is equally important" - you send a song, you get the same voting rights - ethos. If you start removing voting rights, you lose that IMHO.
You're being rather petty now - it's obvious that by lumping the "others" into one category I mean their combined vote would be worth 12, 10, 8... not multiplying it by the number of countries involved.
Not being petty - hadn't even considered that as an option. Treating the 18 countries who didn't get through the semi as equal in voting to just a single country? What's the point - that's more insulting than not letting them vote at all...
We basically disagree on two fundamental things here - I think voting rights should be restricted to those who make the final, you think everyone who enters initially should be able to vote.
Yep - I think anyone who enters the competition should be able to vote. If you don't enter a song, you don't vote. If you enter a song, you vote. Can't see any other fair system that treats every country, who enters a song, equally. There have been countries who haven't been in the final for years - and under your suggestion they wouldn't have been able to vote for years... Way to alienate a viewing audience or what?
The show is for all the competing countries in the entire contest - not just those in the final after all...
I understand why you say that - but I think in trying to increase interest in the countries that often don't make it they're alienating the rest of the EBU who I suspect widely agree something needs to be done about the voting structure.
In recent years if you'd not allowed the semifinalists to vote you'd have alienated the EBU members who are unhappy about block voting a LOT more... That argument is contradictory surely.
If you followed your argument of not allowing them to vote, or forcing them to vote en masse, the following countries, which didn't get through to the final last year, would have been unable to fully take part in the final as voting nations :
Israel, Cyprus, Iceland, Montenegro, Switzerland, Netherlands, Albania, Denmark, Croatia, Poland, Czech Republic, Portugal, Norway, Malta, Andorra, Estonia, Belgium, Austria.
Now of those - Israel, Cyprus, Iceland, Switzerland, Netherlands, Denmark, Portugal, Norway, Malta, Belgium and Austria are long standing EBU members and Eurovision Song Contest competitors - I'm not sure I'd want to have to tell their audiences and national broadcasters that they weren't eligible to vote, or were only equivalent to one country all together.
Sorry - we're going to have to fundamentally disagree on this. At least even if the block voting keeps you out of the final you can still vote for the song you like in the final...
AIUI the draw for the first and second semi wasn't entirely random - instead 6 groups of countries (including groups that traditionally are more likely to block vote - Balkans, Scandinavians, former Soviet Union etc.) were created - 4 pots of 6 and 2 pots of 7.
3 countries were drawn randomly for each group and put in semi 1, the three remaining in the 4 pots of 6 went to semi 2. Three were also drawn randomly from the two pots that had 4 countries left, to send those countries to semi 2. The two remaining countries were randomly allocated to semi 1 and semi 2.
Confusing - but designed to ensure that the split semis aren't dominated by one group or another who might traditionally vote for each other...
If a few countries drop out - so what, there's too many entrants anyway, but if one of the "big four" pulls out, which as things stand I think is likely to happen sooner or later, the whole competition could be put in jeopardy.
A few of the big four have rumbled a bit recently - hence the dual semi this year. However I don't think anyone has suggested that only finalist countries could vote in the final - they realise this would be a great way of killing the competition in those countries that didn't make it. Why bother to watch if you can't vote AND you're not in it?
ISTR that Austria has dropped out this year - they also dropped out in 2006 - but I don't think any others have. Italy hasn't entered since we beat them in 1997 - they've decided Eurovision isn't for them. If they were still taking part there would be a Big Five I believe.
What I propose gives every viewer the opportunity to vote, but the votes of qualifying countries will be worth more than those who didn't make it - which I think is fair enough.[/quote]
noggin
Founding member
Brekkie posted:
Trust me to pick the argument with the one person who takes Eurovision seriously!
I don't take it THAT seriously. It is a great bit of fun - but the way it is viewed in the UK (and a couple of other countries these days) is SO different to the way it is viewed in others is unbelievable. It really DOES mean something to many countries. In Malta their performers are treated like, err, pop stars and are mobbed at the airport. When Chiara came second she was treated like she had won ISTR...
The contest was conceived as a way of uniting Europe in song - remember it started only 10 years after we'd been bombing the hell out of each other... In recent years it has served to highlight that there are still groupings of loyalties and rivalries across the continent (and the extra bits tacked on by the EBU) - but we have to be careful not to create further first and second class nations by altering the voting system. It took quite a few years to get to the current 12,10,8,7-1 system - but AIUI there has always been a fundamental "every country is equally important" - you send a song, you get the same voting rights - ethos. If you start removing voting rights, you lose that IMHO.
Quote:
You're being rather petty now - it's obvious that by lumping the "others" into one category I mean their combined vote would be worth 12, 10, 8... not multiplying it by the number of countries involved.
Not being petty - hadn't even considered that as an option. Treating the 18 countries who didn't get through the semi as equal in voting to just a single country? What's the point - that's more insulting than not letting them vote at all...
Quote:
We basically disagree on two fundamental things here - I think voting rights should be restricted to those who make the final, you think everyone who enters initially should be able to vote.
Yep - I think anyone who enters the competition should be able to vote. If you don't enter a song, you don't vote. If you enter a song, you vote. Can't see any other fair system that treats every country, who enters a song, equally. There have been countries who haven't been in the final for years - and under your suggestion they wouldn't have been able to vote for years... Way to alienate a viewing audience or what?
The show is for all the competing countries in the entire contest - not just those in the final after all...
Quote:
I understand why you say that - but I think in trying to increase interest in the countries that often don't make it they're alienating the rest of the EBU who I suspect widely agree something needs to be done about the voting structure.
In recent years if you'd not allowed the semifinalists to vote you'd have alienated the EBU members who are unhappy about block voting a LOT more... That argument is contradictory surely.
If you followed your argument of not allowing them to vote, or forcing them to vote en masse, the following countries, which didn't get through to the final last year, would have been unable to fully take part in the final as voting nations :
Israel, Cyprus, Iceland, Montenegro, Switzerland, Netherlands, Albania, Denmark, Croatia, Poland, Czech Republic, Portugal, Norway, Malta, Andorra, Estonia, Belgium, Austria.
Now of those - Israel, Cyprus, Iceland, Switzerland, Netherlands, Denmark, Portugal, Norway, Malta, Belgium and Austria are long standing EBU members and Eurovision Song Contest competitors - I'm not sure I'd want to have to tell their audiences and national broadcasters that they weren't eligible to vote, or were only equivalent to one country all together.
Sorry - we're going to have to fundamentally disagree on this. At least even if the block voting keeps you out of the final you can still vote for the song you like in the final...
AIUI the draw for the first and second semi wasn't entirely random - instead 6 groups of countries (including groups that traditionally are more likely to block vote - Balkans, Scandinavians, former Soviet Union etc.) were created - 4 pots of 6 and 2 pots of 7.
3 countries were drawn randomly for each group and put in semi 1, the three remaining in the 4 pots of 6 went to semi 2. Three were also drawn randomly from the two pots that had 4 countries left, to send those countries to semi 2. The two remaining countries were randomly allocated to semi 1 and semi 2.
Confusing - but designed to ensure that the split semis aren't dominated by one group or another who might traditionally vote for each other...
Quote:
If a few countries drop out - so what, there's too many entrants anyway, but if one of the "big four" pulls out, which as things stand I think is likely to happen sooner or later, the whole competition could be put in jeopardy.
A few of the big four have rumbled a bit recently - hence the dual semi this year. However I don't think anyone has suggested that only finalist countries could vote in the final - they realise this would be a great way of killing the competition in those countries that didn't make it. Why bother to watch if you can't vote AND you're not in it?
ISTR that Austria has dropped out this year - they also dropped out in 2006 - but I don't think any others have. Italy hasn't entered since we beat them in 1997 - they've decided Eurovision isn't for them. If they were still taking part there would be a Big Five I believe.
What I propose gives every viewer the opportunity to vote, but the votes of qualifying countries will be worth more than those who didn't make it - which I think is fair enough.[/quote]
NG
She was very young wasn't she - and ISTR her vocals on the night weren't great. I think, though very much of its time, Michael Ball's "One Step Out of Time" was a good performance of an OK song. Also, though at the time I didn't rate it, I quite like Frances Ruffelle's entry "Lonely Symphony" - it was a bit before it's time I think compared to the other stuff entered. Gina G's song was a very upbeat number and would have done a lot better if she could actually have sung. Least said about Samantha "Eastenders" Janus singing the better - and the lyrics were even worse. (She WON'T talk about it in interviews AIUI)
noggin
Founding member
cylon6 posted:
I thought the UK had a great song sveral years ago from Emma called Give A Little Love Back To The World (I think). I was surprised that it didn't do better...and really surprised that Katrina And The Waves won with their effort a few years later.
She was very young wasn't she - and ISTR her vocals on the night weren't great. I think, though very much of its time, Michael Ball's "One Step Out of Time" was a good performance of an OK song. Also, though at the time I didn't rate it, I quite like Frances Ruffelle's entry "Lonely Symphony" - it was a bit before it's time I think compared to the other stuff entered. Gina G's song was a very upbeat number and would have done a lot better if she could actually have sung. Least said about Samantha "Eastenders" Janus singing the better - and the lyrics were even worse. (She WON'T talk about it in interviews AIUI)
RD
Why don't we just bring back the jury? That's how we won last time as Televoting only was mass launched when it was in the NIA in Brum 10 years ago.
Sure we won't have our say as a nation but we just tend to end up voting for Ireland anywway so at least we won't be biased either as well as the eastern states.
Sure we won't have our say as a nation but we just tend to end up voting for Ireland anywway so at least we won't be biased either as well as the eastern states.
LL
She was very young wasn't she - and ISTR her vocals on the night weren't great. I think, though very much of its time, Michael Ball's "One Step Out of Time" was a good performance of an OK song. Also, though at the time I didn't rate it, I quite like Frances Ruffelle's entry "Lonely Symphony" - it was a bit before it's time I think compared to the other stuff entered. Gina G's song was a very upbeat number and would have done a lot better if she could actually have sung. Least said about Samantha "Eastenders" Janus singing the better - and the lyrics were even worse. (She WON'T talk about it in interviews AIUI)
As we're looking back at 90's UK entries, let's not forget Love City Groove - 1995, I think - which still sounds good today. Very few UK selections stand up well listening to them a few years on.
noggin posted:
cylon6 posted:
I thought the UK had a great song sveral years ago from Emma called Give A Little Love Back To The World (I think). I was surprised that it didn't do better...and really surprised that Katrina And The Waves won with their effort a few years later.
She was very young wasn't she - and ISTR her vocals on the night weren't great. I think, though very much of its time, Michael Ball's "One Step Out of Time" was a good performance of an OK song. Also, though at the time I didn't rate it, I quite like Frances Ruffelle's entry "Lonely Symphony" - it was a bit before it's time I think compared to the other stuff entered. Gina G's song was a very upbeat number and would have done a lot better if she could actually have sung. Least said about Samantha "Eastenders" Janus singing the better - and the lyrics were even worse. (She WON'T talk about it in interviews AIUI)
As we're looking back at 90's UK entries, let's not forget Love City Groove - 1995, I think - which still sounds good today. Very few UK selections stand up well listening to them a few years on.
JR
She was very young wasn't she - and ISTR her vocals on the night weren't great. I think, though very much of its time, Michael Ball's "One Step Out of Time" was a good performance of an OK song. Also, though at the time I didn't rate it, I quite like Frances Ruffelle's entry "Lonely Symphony" - it was a bit before it's time I think compared to the other stuff entered. Gina G's song was a very upbeat number and would have done a lot better if she could actually have sung. Least said about Samantha "Eastenders" Janus singing the better - and the lyrics were even worse. (She WON'T talk about it in interviews AIUI)
As we're looking back at 90's UK entries, let's not forget Love City Groove - 1995, I think - which still sounds good today. Very few UK selections stand up well listening to them a few years on.
Are you sure that applies to Flying the Flag ?
That didn't stand up in the first place anyway, because it was told to take its seat for take-off.
(Mercifully, the plane exploded.)
Skytower posted:
noggin posted:
cylon6 posted:
I thought the UK had a great song sveral years ago from Emma called Give A Little Love Back To The World (I think). I was surprised that it didn't do better...and really surprised that Katrina And The Waves won with their effort a few years later.
She was very young wasn't she - and ISTR her vocals on the night weren't great. I think, though very much of its time, Michael Ball's "One Step Out of Time" was a good performance of an OK song. Also, though at the time I didn't rate it, I quite like Frances Ruffelle's entry "Lonely Symphony" - it was a bit before it's time I think compared to the other stuff entered. Gina G's song was a very upbeat number and would have done a lot better if she could actually have sung. Least said about Samantha "Eastenders" Janus singing the better - and the lyrics were even worse. (She WON'T talk about it in interviews AIUI)
As we're looking back at 90's UK entries, let's not forget Love City Groove - 1995, I think - which still sounds good today. Very few UK selections stand up well listening to them a few years on.
Are you sure that applies to Flying the Flag ?
That didn't stand up in the first place anyway, because it was told to take its seat for take-off.
(Mercifully, the plane exploded.)