RS
Rob_Schneider
Anyone doing differently would be persecuted in their respective country. Remember Armenia had to drop out of Baku 2012 because of this situation.
TI
I don’t usually indulge in theories on why the UK are continually failing at Eurovision however I feel there are a few relevant points to consider. Whilst it is wrong to mention his name nowadays the BBC need to entrust the Contest to someone who has a vision for it, such as Jonathan King did in the 1990’s. He tried twice with two genres of music that he thought might do well and failed. At his third attempt he selected Katrina and the Waves. The song wasn’t written with Eurovision in mind, it only landed on his desk by accident. He played it to his elderly mother and she said straight away that it would win by a mile and of course she was right. After all the focus groups and attempts of the previous two years to write ‘Eurovision’ songs a totally different song managed to capture the Grand prix against all the odds. Let someone come up with a few ideas, let them try them and if they fail it doesn’t matter, we’re at rock bottom anyway!
The much talked about death of variety in UK broadcasting has had a big impact on our ability at Eurovision. For many years we were able to cover the fact that no credible act would represent us by getting good variety type acts to enter instead. The likes of Michael Ball and Frances Ruffelle , whilst not pop stars, were at least able to perform night after night in front of crowds of two or three thousand. They didn’t freeze in front of the live audience, live performing was their bread and butter. The lack of variety programming means that the general population are less exposed these days to new live talents who don’t necessarily fit into the rock/pop genre. Even when these types of artists do appear they are either sneered at (Kerry Ellis on The Voice) or bare faced lies are told about them to downplay their considerable stage experience (Alison Jiear on BGT).
To give the BBC some credit this year they tried to open the contest up to amateur and professional songwriters and were met with a mixture of rubbish and/or indifference. In the end you can’t blame them for seeking out a songwriter who tried many times to have his song performed at Eurovision. I have no doubt that the BBC knew it was a turkey straight away though. Graham Norton’s pre-show comments at the Greatest Hits concert that weren’t broadcast demonstrated this VERY clearly.
If we think the UK are unlucky think of poor France. They won 5 of the first 22 contests but haven’t won in 38 years now. They consistently send one of the best songs each year and this year they had genuine high hopes of being a contender in the lower reaches of the top 10.
The much talked about death of variety in UK broadcasting has had a big impact on our ability at Eurovision. For many years we were able to cover the fact that no credible act would represent us by getting good variety type acts to enter instead. The likes of Michael Ball and Frances Ruffelle , whilst not pop stars, were at least able to perform night after night in front of crowds of two or three thousand. They didn’t freeze in front of the live audience, live performing was their bread and butter. The lack of variety programming means that the general population are less exposed these days to new live talents who don’t necessarily fit into the rock/pop genre. Even when these types of artists do appear they are either sneered at (Kerry Ellis on The Voice) or bare faced lies are told about them to downplay their considerable stage experience (Alison Jiear on BGT).
To give the BBC some credit this year they tried to open the contest up to amateur and professional songwriters and were met with a mixture of rubbish and/or indifference. In the end you can’t blame them for seeking out a songwriter who tried many times to have his song performed at Eurovision. I have no doubt that the BBC knew it was a turkey straight away though. Graham Norton’s pre-show comments at the Greatest Hits concert that weren’t broadcast demonstrated this VERY clearly.
If we think the UK are unlucky think of poor France. They won 5 of the first 22 contests but haven’t won in 38 years now. They consistently send one of the best songs each year and this year they had genuine high hopes of being a contender in the lower reaches of the top 10.
SW
Just to point out, this is wrong, the result of a couple of people (including the consistently over-excited Emma Kennedy) not realising her bits in the green room are only there to cover ad breaks...
https://twitter.com/Psythor/status/602518762189942785
I don't know how these people think Russian TV covered it last year when she won the bloody thing.
Yes, excellent documentary, Caroline Wright's productions really are the best TV shows about TV. I think that documentary, and the Contest itself, confirmed again what an excellent presenter Graham Norton is, witty, intelligent and warm. I think he's brilliant and does a perfect job on Eurovision.
ITV would do exactly the same as the BBC and they wouldn't want to do it anyway with The X Factor and Britain's Got Talent. They did Junior Eurovision and it was a total disaster. And C4 should never do it, C4 was established to be the alternative risk-taking broadcaster and there is no possible way the Eurovision Song Contest fits into that. It's totally against their remit.
I don't understand much of the hand-wringing over the UK entry when you can look at Germany...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany_in_the_Eurovision_Song_Contest#Contestants
Since 2002, like the UK they've been the top ten on three occasions but most of the time have stumbled around the bottom including on two occasions last. But then they managed to win it in 2010 so I think it's wrong to say the UK are doomed to constant failure. And Germany I think treat it very similar to the way we do in that they have frequently sent "funny" entries and they clearly enjoy it for the spectacle and the fun of the occasion rather than a serious song contest. If someone writes a decent song, even if it's a gimmicky or silly one, that just happens to catch on it doesn't matter how the Beeb pick it. It could just as well come from the current internal selection as if they brought A Song For Europe back.
If you have any ideas about Eurovision, why not send them to the Eurovision production office at BBC White City, like ORF sent Electro Velvet's present there?
Russia has censored Conchita from tonights broadcast, showing studio crowd shots instead.
Just to point out, this is wrong, the result of a couple of people (including the consistently over-excited Emma Kennedy) not realising her bits in the green room are only there to cover ad breaks...
https://twitter.com/Psythor/status/602518762189942785
I don't know how these people think Russian TV covered it last year when she won the bloody thing.
If you had watched the BBC4 documentary last night you would have saw that Graham Norton and Terry Wogan both LOVE Eurovision greatly. The irreverent, and slightly p*** taking, attitude is similar throughout much of Europe i.e. Sweden!
Yes, excellent documentary, Caroline Wright's productions really are the best TV shows about TV. I think that documentary, and the Contest itself, confirmed again what an excellent presenter Graham Norton is, witty, intelligent and warm. I think he's brilliant and does a perfect job on Eurovision.
As for the future although I'd like to see what ITV or C4 would do with the selection process I do think at the very least the BBC need to return final responsibility for selecting the song to the audience - whether that's through a TV show or just through radio or online, at least let viewers pick the best of the worst, even if the audition process is pretty much the same.
ITV would do exactly the same as the BBC and they wouldn't want to do it anyway with The X Factor and Britain's Got Talent. They did Junior Eurovision and it was a total disaster. And C4 should never do it, C4 was established to be the alternative risk-taking broadcaster and there is no possible way the Eurovision Song Contest fits into that. It's totally against their remit.
I don't understand much of the hand-wringing over the UK entry when you can look at Germany...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germany_in_the_Eurovision_Song_Contest#Contestants
Since 2002, like the UK they've been the top ten on three occasions but most of the time have stumbled around the bottom including on two occasions last. But then they managed to win it in 2010 so I think it's wrong to say the UK are doomed to constant failure. And Germany I think treat it very similar to the way we do in that they have frequently sent "funny" entries and they clearly enjoy it for the spectacle and the fun of the occasion rather than a serious song contest. If someone writes a decent song, even if it's a gimmicky or silly one, that just happens to catch on it doesn't matter how the Beeb pick it. It could just as well come from the current internal selection as if they brought A Song For Europe back.
If you have any ideas about Eurovision, why not send them to the Eurovision production office at BBC White City, like ORF sent Electro Velvet's present there?
MF
Problem is though, our entries are WORST than what Germany have produced these past few years.
SW
Well, the points they've recieved would suggest otherwise. Remove the year they won it and they seem to be neck and neck in terms of crapness.
Problem is though, our entries are WORST than what Germany have produced these past few years.
Well, the points they've recieved would suggest otherwise. Remove the year they won it and they seem to be neck and neck in terms of crapness.
TT
My in-depth review of the Eurovision Song Contest 2015 Grand Final is now available on my blog for you enjoy.
Please click this line for the review
Please click this line for the review
MF
Very good review Nick, but a couple of questions:
1. What did you think of the hosts?
2. What did you think of the technical problems, and do you feel it was severe enough to cause the show to overrun
3. How do you think the UK can do to win next year?
1. What did you think of the hosts?
2. What did you think of the technical problems, and do you feel it was severe enough to cause the show to overrun
3. How do you think the UK can do to win next year?
EL
Just to point out, this is wrong, the result of a couple of people (including the consistently over-excited Emma Kennedy) not realising her bits in the green room are only there to cover ad breaks...
https://twitter.com/Psythor/status/602518762189942785
It is very weird when somebody you know crops up in a place you frequent. Psythor's great at cutting through ****
Just to point out, this is wrong, the result of a couple of people (including the consistently over-excited Emma Kennedy) not realising her bits in the green room are only there to cover ad breaks...
https://twitter.com/Psythor/status/602518762189942785
It is very weird when somebody you know crops up in a place you frequent. Psythor's great at cutting through ****
Last edited by elmarko on 30 May 2015 9:07pm
TT
1) I didn't really take that much notice of the hosts as I was focusing more on the songs. Anyway they seemed OK to me. I liked the way Arabella said in the closing speech Saturday evening "The most important thing is that, 40 countries have come together to entertain the whole world with their great songs and build bridges". The UK which did badly (again) or countries that repeatedly fail to get past the semi-final ought to take note of that.
2) Problems arose when the hosts first tried contacting Portugal, Estonia and Georgia in their planned voting slots. During one of those hiccups Graham Norton joked about such problems occurring in 2015 said something like "Are we still using tin cans and string?". Still that's only 3 out of 40 countries, I guess some problems are inevitable with satellite links even nowadays. The hosts handled it well, rather than dwell on, for example Portugal when the hiccup arose, they immediately gave up and went on to the next country on the list, and returned to Portugal, Estonia and Georgia (with success) at the end. Inevitably that made the voting take slightly longer than planned, but that in itself wasn't the the cause of the over-run of about 20+ minutes (I think it was meant to finish around 23:35 BST and actually ended just before midnight). I'd say another cause was the televoting window; when they first announced it I thought it was only going to be 15 minutes, but I think it ended up being about 25 minutes.
3) That's a difficult one to answer. The UK is lucky in getting a "free pass" to the final; most countries have to go through the semi-finals to win a place in the final, and thus for them merely getting to the final is an achievement to be proud of. Anyway I think the BBC needs to make much more effort. In 2009 "Your Country Needs You!" went on for a series of Saturday evenings in January. I think we ought to have a series of heats (4 to 6 weeks) starting at the beginning of January and the winners of those go through to the UK National Final, the winner of which goes to the ESC. Three other things to bear in mind:
a) Note that I said Saturday evenings starting say 7pm, i.e. prime time. There were a few years late 90s / early 00s when the BBC put a national final on Sunday late afternoon (not exactly prime time viewing).
b) Have a decent selection of songs of various genres. Back in 2007 I watched the online preview videos for the six songs about a week or so before that year's UK national final, and quite frankly I didn't think any of them were up to much. In my opinion, Scooch "Flying The Flag (For You)" was the best of six bad songs; funnily enough I thought the Boogie Beebies dance song from that week "Sporty Boogie" was better than any of the six songs competing to represent the UK at ESC 2007. If the public gets a poor selection to choose from in 2016 then the UK's chances at the ESC 2016 in Sweden won't be any better.
c) The selection ought to include performances from groups that are currently popular across Europe. Don't have artists that no-one has ever heard of, or artists that were popular 30 to 40 years ago but haven't been heard of since their last no. 1 hit early 1970s / mid 1980s.
Very good review Nick, but a couple of questions:
1. What did you think of the hosts?
2. What did you think of the technical problems, and do you feel it was severe enough to cause the show to overrun
3. How do you think the UK can do to win next year?
1. What did you think of the hosts?
2. What did you think of the technical problems, and do you feel it was severe enough to cause the show to overrun
3. How do you think the UK can do to win next year?
1) I didn't really take that much notice of the hosts as I was focusing more on the songs. Anyway they seemed OK to me. I liked the way Arabella said in the closing speech Saturday evening "The most important thing is that, 40 countries have come together to entertain the whole world with their great songs and build bridges". The UK which did badly (again) or countries that repeatedly fail to get past the semi-final ought to take note of that.
2) Problems arose when the hosts first tried contacting Portugal, Estonia and Georgia in their planned voting slots. During one of those hiccups Graham Norton joked about such problems occurring in 2015 said something like "Are we still using tin cans and string?". Still that's only 3 out of 40 countries, I guess some problems are inevitable with satellite links even nowadays. The hosts handled it well, rather than dwell on, for example Portugal when the hiccup arose, they immediately gave up and went on to the next country on the list, and returned to Portugal, Estonia and Georgia (with success) at the end. Inevitably that made the voting take slightly longer than planned, but that in itself wasn't the the cause of the over-run of about 20+ minutes (I think it was meant to finish around 23:35 BST and actually ended just before midnight). I'd say another cause was the televoting window; when they first announced it I thought it was only going to be 15 minutes, but I think it ended up being about 25 minutes.
3) That's a difficult one to answer. The UK is lucky in getting a "free pass" to the final; most countries have to go through the semi-finals to win a place in the final, and thus for them merely getting to the final is an achievement to be proud of. Anyway I think the BBC needs to make much more effort. In 2009 "Your Country Needs You!" went on for a series of Saturday evenings in January. I think we ought to have a series of heats (4 to 6 weeks) starting at the beginning of January and the winners of those go through to the UK National Final, the winner of which goes to the ESC. Three other things to bear in mind:
a) Note that I said Saturday evenings starting say 7pm, i.e. prime time. There were a few years late 90s / early 00s when the BBC put a national final on Sunday late afternoon (not exactly prime time viewing).
b) Have a decent selection of songs of various genres. Back in 2007 I watched the online preview videos for the six songs about a week or so before that year's UK national final, and quite frankly I didn't think any of them were up to much. In my opinion, Scooch "Flying The Flag (For You)" was the best of six bad songs; funnily enough I thought the Boogie Beebies dance song from that week "Sporty Boogie" was better than any of the six songs competing to represent the UK at ESC 2007. If the public gets a poor selection to choose from in 2016 then the UK's chances at the ESC 2016 in Sweden won't be any better.
c) The selection ought to include performances from groups that are currently popular across Europe. Don't have artists that no-one has ever heard of, or artists that were popular 30 to 40 years ago but haven't been heard of since their last no. 1 hit early 1970s / mid 1980s.
TT
Now that ESC 2015 has been and gone, I've posted some updated statistics about the history of the Eurovision Song Contest, incorporating the ESC 2015 Grand Final results:
Eurovision Song Contest Statistics 2015
Think the UK's ESC 2015 result, 24th out of 27 finalists with just 5 points, in the aftermath of years of poor results means the UK is one of the worst ESC contenders? Well despite the UK's poor showing since 1999 (except 2002 and 2009), the UK is still one of the best countries in the history of the ESC! I've compiled league tables to show you the performance of each country that has ever participated in Eurovision; check this out:
Eurovision Song Contest League Tables 2015
Eurovision Song Contest Statistics 2015
Think the UK's ESC 2015 result, 24th out of 27 finalists with just 5 points, in the aftermath of years of poor results means the UK is one of the worst ESC contenders? Well despite the UK's poor showing since 1999 (except 2002 and 2009), the UK is still one of the best countries in the history of the ESC! I've compiled league tables to show you the performance of each country that has ever participated in Eurovision; check this out:
Eurovision Song Contest League Tables 2015
RS
Rob_Schneider
But it's still just not good enough. If this was a national sporting team, heads would roll for such a poor performance.
The UK is a laughing stock at Eurovision and I'm not prepared to accept it. We have the greatest music industry in the world and if the BBC are not prepared to book the likes of Ed Sheeran or Ellie Goulding, then they must at once hand it over to a broadcaster that will. Why do the BBC think Eurovision is a comedy show? It isn't. It just is not.
The UK is a laughing stock at Eurovision and I'm not prepared to accept it. We have the greatest music industry in the world and if the BBC are not prepared to book the likes of Ed Sheeran or Ellie Goulding, then they must at once hand it over to a broadcaster that will. Why do the BBC think Eurovision is a comedy show? It isn't. It just is not.