NG
Last year's Red Button reveal was a pretty high budget affair, and concentrated entirely on the Eurovision reveal. Arguably it got better coverage and treatment than it would have done if it were a 2'00" chat and a 3'00" performance in The One Show studio, though fewer people saw it (though it was also the official ESC preview video as well)
Or are you suggesting same production - just get The One Show to play it out instead of Red Button?
noggin
Founding member
Point is that demoting the reveal to BBC Red Button, demeans the exercise. A reveal on The One Show would be reasonable given the lack of a live entertainment outlet. Subjecting the performer to live performance, rather some dingy pre-record would show his, her or their mettle too.
Last year's Red Button reveal was a pretty high budget affair, and concentrated entirely on the Eurovision reveal. Arguably it got better coverage and treatment than it would have done if it were a 2'00" chat and a 3'00" performance in The One Show studio, though fewer people saw it (though it was also the official ESC preview video as well)
Or are you suggesting same production - just get The One Show to play it out instead of Red Button?
ST
It isn't exactly hidden away. They did plenty to plug where to watch and when last year and expect they will do the same this year.
We'll never get a Melodifestivalen type show until we build up the reputation of acts. If we ever win again it might be something to think about of the back of it but that would be a big IF. Also, would the BBC, in these days of cuts, ever afford the extravagance of something like Melodifestivalen. Me thinks not.
We'll never get a Melodifestivalen type show until we build up the reputation of acts. If we ever win again it might be something to think about of the back of it but that would be a big IF. Also, would the BBC, in these days of cuts, ever afford the extravagance of something like Melodifestivalen. Me thinks not.
DV
Last year's Red Button reveal was a pretty high budget affair, and concentrated entirely on the Eurovision reveal. Arguably it got better coverage and treatment than it would have done if it were a 2'00" chat and a 3'00" performance in The One Show studio, though fewer people saw it (though it was also the official ESC preview video as well)
Or are you suggesting same production - just get The One Show to play it out instead of Red Button?
A 10-15 minute slot with Eurovision back story, interview with producer, act and performance, after all the BBC are hosting the 60th Anniversary event this year.
Point is that demoting the reveal to BBC Red Button, demeans the exercise. A reveal on The One Show would be reasonable given the lack of a live entertainment outlet. Subjecting the performer to live performance, rather some dingy pre-record would show his, her or their mettle too.
Last year's Red Button reveal was a pretty high budget affair, and concentrated entirely on the Eurovision reveal. Arguably it got better coverage and treatment than it would have done if it were a 2'00" chat and a 3'00" performance in The One Show studio, though fewer people saw it (though it was also the official ESC preview video as well)
Or are you suggesting same production - just get The One Show to play it out instead of Red Button?
A 10-15 minute slot with Eurovision back story, interview with producer, act and performance, after all the BBC are hosting the 60th Anniversary event this year.
DE
The difference with shows like Melodifestivalen, Melodi Grand Prix et al. is that in those territories the music industry is fully behind the contests and see them as an extremely effective way of promoting music and artists within that country and within the surrounding countries, plus of course one act will get European-wide exposure on the contest itself. Sadly the eurovision doesn't have widespread industry support in the UK (it doesn't need the contest to promote music and artists) so the BBC has struggled for years with a competition to find the eurovision entry (and evidently has now given up). That's not to say though that there isn't a lot of off-screen effort into choosing the song and performer, I'm sure the BBC work very hard on getting the best it can.
For me, the best recent programme was the Lord Lloyd Webber thing which ended up with Jade Ewan. A good show, a good song, a great performance on the night. And a top 5 finish. Anyone who says the esc is all about political bloc voting needs to be reminded that when we've entered a good song, sung well, it's done well.
However last year, with the big reveal (albeit on the red button) was heavily tweet-promoted, promoted on Radio 2 and (importantly) had the backing of Scott Mills, plus associated appearances on Graham Norton and other eurovision promotion across the BBC, I think that's probably the best we can hope for. The song may not have done too well on the night which I still think is a shame as it was IMO the best song since Blue's "I can". That had a decent reveal too with a one hour long (I think) documentary to support its launch.
For me, the best recent programme was the Lord Lloyd Webber thing which ended up with Jade Ewan. A good show, a good song, a great performance on the night. And a top 5 finish. Anyone who says the esc is all about political bloc voting needs to be reminded that when we've entered a good song, sung well, it's done well.
However last year, with the big reveal (albeit on the red button) was heavily tweet-promoted, promoted on Radio 2 and (importantly) had the backing of Scott Mills, plus associated appearances on Graham Norton and other eurovision promotion across the BBC, I think that's probably the best we can hope for. The song may not have done too well on the night which I still think is a shame as it was IMO the best song since Blue's "I can". That had a decent reveal too with a one hour long (I think) documentary to support its launch.
GM
The tweets have been pulled...
Guy Sebastian has been announced as the Australian Entrant by SBS just now .....
The tweets have been pulled...
SW
Yes, that's exactly right. Even when we had the Lloyd Webber show, which was heavily promoted and had some real backing behind it, it still ended up looking like a second rate version of The X Factor, and I think I'm right in saying at least some of the contestants had failed in the auditions on The X Factor. The fact is that potential contestants would rather go on The X Factor or The Voice because there is a tangible prize which is more appealing to most people. As mentioned, the UK record industry doesn't need Eurovision in the way other European countries do because the UK record industry has numerous other platforms to promote its wares. It's like how the smaller European nations see the qualifying tournaments for the World Cup as more important than the major nations, because that's their big moment in the spotlight.
Unless you were to say the winner of The Voice also got to represent the UK in Eurovision (as well as all the other prizes), you're not going to generate the kind of interest in Eurovision and attract the gold standard of talent because there aren't enough people who want to do it. It's pointless to compare it to other European nations, they all have their own musical tastes and traditions.
The difference with shows like Melodifestivalen, Melodi Grand Prix et al. is that in those territories the music industry is fully behind the contests and see them as an extremely effective way of promoting music and artists within that country and within the surrounding countries, plus of course one act will get European-wide exposure on the contest itself. Sadly the eurovision doesn't have widespread industry support in the UK (it doesn't need the contest to promote music and artists) so the BBC has struggled for years with a competition to find the eurovision entry (and evidently has now given up). That's not to say though that there isn't a lot of off-screen effort into choosing the song and performer, I'm sure the BBC work very hard on getting the best it can.
Yes, that's exactly right. Even when we had the Lloyd Webber show, which was heavily promoted and had some real backing behind it, it still ended up looking like a second rate version of The X Factor, and I think I'm right in saying at least some of the contestants had failed in the auditions on The X Factor. The fact is that potential contestants would rather go on The X Factor or The Voice because there is a tangible prize which is more appealing to most people. As mentioned, the UK record industry doesn't need Eurovision in the way other European countries do because the UK record industry has numerous other platforms to promote its wares. It's like how the smaller European nations see the qualifying tournaments for the World Cup as more important than the major nations, because that's their big moment in the spotlight.
Unless you were to say the winner of The Voice also got to represent the UK in Eurovision (as well as all the other prizes), you're not going to generate the kind of interest in Eurovision and attract the gold standard of talent because there aren't enough people who want to do it. It's pointless to compare it to other European nations, they all have their own musical tastes and traditions.
BR
With that all said though and that sort of attitude with the BBC, music industry and Eurovision fanbase then surely they've nothing to lose by the viewers selecting the winner in a low budget one-off show as we did for years. At least that way the viewers get some ownershp of it and I doubt results would differ hugely from what they are now. They are going through the submission process anyway so just adding a final viewer based stage (or even just leave it to Radio 2) isn't going to add a huge expense to proceedings.
If we're going to send crap out with no intention of winning at least let it be crap chosen by the public.
If we're going to send crap out with no intention of winning at least let it be crap chosen by the public.
MA
But surely it's better to really work on one act, than spread the resources thinly across many acts before a public vote? I mean, either multiple songs are written and the performances aren't quite worked up properly and we have 5 crap performances to choose from, or there is a single song (as we had in 2009 and 2010) that isn't tailor-made for the particular singer.
I'd rather that BBC Introducing is used and an artist and writer really work together to get something good together. Last year's song wasn't as bad as its placement suggests and (IMHO) was let down by the staging and performance. It was the best thing we had sent since 2009 and we shouldn't lump it in with Scooch, Andy Abrahams and Englebert Humperdink.
With that all said though and that sort of attitude with the BBC, music industry and Eurovision fanbase then surely they've nothing to lose by the viewers selecting the winner in a low budget one-off show as we did for years. At least that way the viewers get some ownershp of it and I doubt results would differ hugely from what they are now. They are going through the submission process anyway so just adding a final viewer based stage (or even just leave it to Radio 2) isn't going to add a huge expense to proceedings.
If we're going to send crap out with no intention of winning at least let it be crap chosen by the public.
If we're going to send crap out with no intention of winning at least let it be crap chosen by the public.
But surely it's better to really work on one act, than spread the resources thinly across many acts before a public vote? I mean, either multiple songs are written and the performances aren't quite worked up properly and we have 5 crap performances to choose from, or there is a single song (as we had in 2009 and 2010) that isn't tailor-made for the particular singer.
I'd rather that BBC Introducing is used and an artist and writer really work together to get something good together. Last year's song wasn't as bad as its placement suggests and (IMHO) was let down by the staging and performance. It was the best thing we had sent since 2009 and we shouldn't lump it in with Scooch, Andy Abrahams and Englebert Humperdink.
BR
I agree it was basically screwed up on the night last year. If they stick with the Introducing route (which is far better than what they were doing in the years before) then they could surely still make a special out of the selection process, culminating in the reveal of the selected entry.
PC
I think the BBC started down the right route last year - it was never going to all come together at once.
First things first, for the love of God do not let the UK public choose an act for Eurovision. The general perception of Eurovision in this country remains in the 1960s - or as Terry Wogan used to called it, the "Boom-bang-a-bang-puppet-on-a-string" brigade. The show has moved on hugely - it's adopted quite a bit of X Factor-style production and the semi-finals weed out the poorer songs. The top two last year wouldn't have sounded out of place on the Radio 2 playlist.
With the X Factor-style feel though comes the need for the presentation to be spot on. With a huge degree of hindsight I'd say our song was a little too dark to start with - you need sweetness and light most of the time - and the notes were too low for anyone to sing, so you lost people before the mega-chorus. The styling was also a bit of a mess, it really didn't suit her. It also had a feel of trying to write a song that would win Eurovision, rather than just a bloody good song - see the country song that finished second. Having said all that, it was a decent effort and it says it all that producers chose to put it on last, and a huge finish to proceedings (and possibly to wake people who start to flag in the mid-20s back up again).
The other thing that hinders the UK is a strange one. Because we're not in the semi-finals there's a lack of familiarity with the song. This does seem to hamper some of the other bigger nations. Whereas those who watch the show and pay a bit more attention would have seen Austria and primed themselves for it, or picked another favourite they saw in the semi-finals, or maybe heard a song they weren't fans of in the semi but slowly warmed to. Familiarity does not breed contempt in Eurovision, it wins votes. Difficult to see what can be done about that though, the BBC isn't going to volunteer to go into the semi-final and potentially not qualify, thus losing a ton of viewers on the Saturday night.
First things first, for the love of God do not let the UK public choose an act for Eurovision. The general perception of Eurovision in this country remains in the 1960s - or as Terry Wogan used to called it, the "Boom-bang-a-bang-puppet-on-a-string" brigade. The show has moved on hugely - it's adopted quite a bit of X Factor-style production and the semi-finals weed out the poorer songs. The top two last year wouldn't have sounded out of place on the Radio 2 playlist.
With the X Factor-style feel though comes the need for the presentation to be spot on. With a huge degree of hindsight I'd say our song was a little too dark to start with - you need sweetness and light most of the time - and the notes were too low for anyone to sing, so you lost people before the mega-chorus. The styling was also a bit of a mess, it really didn't suit her. It also had a feel of trying to write a song that would win Eurovision, rather than just a bloody good song - see the country song that finished second. Having said all that, it was a decent effort and it says it all that producers chose to put it on last, and a huge finish to proceedings (and possibly to wake people who start to flag in the mid-20s back up again).
The other thing that hinders the UK is a strange one. Because we're not in the semi-finals there's a lack of familiarity with the song. This does seem to hamper some of the other bigger nations. Whereas those who watch the show and pay a bit more attention would have seen Austria and primed themselves for it, or picked another favourite they saw in the semi-finals, or maybe heard a song they weren't fans of in the semi but slowly warmed to. Familiarity does not breed contempt in Eurovision, it wins votes. Difficult to see what can be done about that though, the BBC isn't going to volunteer to go into the semi-final and potentially not qualify, thus losing a ton of viewers on the Saturday night.