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Eurovision 2011 - 10/12/14 May 2011

Dusseldorf (May 2010)

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NG
noggin Founding member
So just me who didn't like the set then?


Nope - I was entirely underwhelmed. NRK's in-house creation in Oslo was much more flexible and interesting - and didn't depend on acres of LED to be impressive. It also gave the jibs, cranes and steadicams more stuff to work with.

Quote:

I only watched the first hour (who scheduled the first episode of Apprentice up against this? And incidentally, how did BBC HD cope with the overrun, as they were supposed to have You're Fired on at Ten?), so maybe it suddenly became better after that, but from what I saw it was effectively a giant LED screen with a massive stage (about 5 miles from the audience) plonked in front of it. There didn't seem to be any elements to make it any more interesting, and with a large number of shots being MCU's from halfway down the arena at the same height as the performers meaning you just get this horrible 2D picture - there's no depth to it at all.


Yep - far too much long lens stuff.

Quote:

Then there were the problems with lots of shots being at the right distance from the LED wall to cause moire-ing on my TV (it's 720p, so the downscaling could be causing this), which looked bad at best.

I also didn't like the "heart beat" when coming back from the postcards. The lighting never seemed synced to the audio, and I definitely prefer to come back to a nice dark arena before the song starts.


Didn't like the heartbeat audio - sounded like the intro to the song.

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The stage doesn't look that good - it's far too big with that surround, and the walkways up to the back looked like a bit of an after thought. And what was with all the lumps of perspex just chucked on the surround? They looked like they were there to duct the low smoke, but surely they could have dropped them in on the required songs rather than be there all the time?

Finally, who on earth was thinking "oh, we haven't got any movement in this shot, right, lets get the camera to pan a bit then zoom out, then pan back and zoom in, then repeat that until we cut away".

Not enough moving cameras used properly - too much dependency on fixed cameras, too far away.

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On the other hand, when the LEDs were working, on a decent choice of shot, it looked lovely. As were the tracking shots from high up in the grid. And the arena overall looked nicer than previous years, so it's not all bad.


The lighting was excellent. The close-up shot, taken relatively close to the performers, with LEDs massively out of focus looked lovely. But definitely not a patch on NRK.
NG
noggin Founding member
One very odd thing was the displaying of both the graphics and footage in the recaps in cropped 4:3 instead of its native 16:9. Looked odd - anyone know why they did this? Nothing sprang into my mind bar for less technically adapted countries still broadcasting 4:3 Full Frame.


According to the technical notes I read on the eurovision site a while back, broadcasting it in 4:3 isn't allowed as it would crop information from the screen - not sure what though because it all seemed to be 4:3 safe, but the specification demanded it was broadcast 14:9 in non-widescreen territories.


14:9 is very much a 'UK thing'. I don't think I've ever seen 14:9 letterbox being used on analogue platforms (or digital for that matter) anywhere outside the UK, except on UK TV programmes that have been sold to that foreign broadcaster.

If a programme is not 4:3 safe, it's normally shown as 16:9 LB ?


SVT used 14:9 letterbox initially for their 4:3 analogue services prior to shut-down, but quickly switched to 16:9 letterboxing. However the EBU have used it for the "4:3" feeds from the Eurovision Song Contest since Kiev 2005 when the show went widescreen for the first time.

I've seen it used a bit elsewhere in the past - but often for 4:3-only services showing non-4:3 sourced material like 15:9 Super 16 stuff (rather than downconversions of 16:9 originated shows) Italy used to do it quite a bit.

I think the graphics are usually just about 4:3 centre cut safe (but possibly not domestically safe on a 4:3 display) - but it's as much about action safe. (i.e. the artistic decisions on framing)
NG
noggin Founding member
In terms of technical issues, there were supposed to be three rehearsals of the show for the benefit of the broadcasters but because of technical issues only one took place. Added to that, Germany's timings were off quite a lot of the time. This probably accounts for some of the sloppy junctions on the BBC Three coverage.


Was amazed to see the Germans do such a bad job of keeping the show to time. It was the one thing I was thinking was guaranteed. Along with expecting perfect technical provisions.

So they ran massively over, and their commentary systems fell over...

Bring back the Scandinavians... They know what they're doing and do it properly.
DV
DVB Cornwall
It's unclear where the overrun came from too. Bizarre.

Maybe the commercial release will be telling, the chopping around on BBC Three makes analysis difficult.
NG
noggin Founding member
I wonder if the transition from the postcards via the heartbeat and wideshot with audio ate into more time?

It's things like that which will slip through a running order timing net if you're not careful - as could not timing transitions between reprise clips (or making the reprise clips longer than predicted?)

Or maybe just not timing the links properly...

Was gobsmacked at how much they ran over though.

(The elements I would hope DID run to time were the breaks - otherwise most broadcasters would have been skewered.)

I liked the postcards as pretty little films, but thought the NRK approach of 'never leaving the arena' was inspired and made the show feel pacier last year. (Beautifully jib/crane-tracked VR animations and some nice virtual screens with simple images of people cheering. Simple, effective, and probably cheaper)
UK
UKnews
Massive audio issues on RTE last night. No commentary for the first 10 minutes, then Marty's voice began to be heard over a phone line. Throughout the night the audio continued to switch from a clear feed back to phone. It was a tad off putting. Not sure where the fault was, with RTE or out in Germany. RTE did place up many straps making apologies for it. It better not happen tomorrow for our all important round.

Sounds to me like a problem with the ISDN setup at the venue. (I'm assuming they're still using ISDN for each broadcasters commentary). Phone being used when the ISDNs failed.

No need to worry, just makes it sound like the olden days Wink
IS
Inspector Sands
Croatia and Portugal were bloody awful. I wouldn't be surprised if Portugal scored 0, a truly repulsive song and performance.

Yes, Portugal's was just bizarre and awful. The problem they made was that they were an in-joke and totally incomprehensible outside of their home country. It was on a par with Dustin the Turkey but at least Dustin was in English which the majority of the viewers could understand
IS
Inspector Sands
I liked the postcards as pretty little films, but thought the NRK approach of 'never leaving the arena' was inspired and made the show feel pacier last year. (Beautifully jib/crane-tracked VR animations and some nice virtual screens with simple images of people cheering. Simple, effective, and probably cheaper)

Yes, I thought last year's sequences between the sings were great - the flag/country animations were superb. Germany's didn't flow as well last night. I'm still not keen on the cutaways to the acts waiting to perform but they did seem better this year
MA
Markymark

Was amazed to see the Germans do such a bad job of keeping the show to time. It was the one thing I was thinking was guaranteed. Along with expecting perfect technical provisions.

So they ran massively over, and their commentary systems fell over...

Bring back the Scandinavians... They know what they're doing and do it properly.


Indeed !
I was talking to some German engineers a few months ago, that are supplying kit for this year's EV,
They implied the set up was rather strange. The plan was to have a completely redundant master OB truck, and kit. The problem was that one set up was predominately Sony kit, the other predominately GV/Thomson.
Their opinion was chaos could ensue if there were any problems.

I had the pleasure of working with some of the principal individuals from the NRK EV team, on a related project with them last summer. They are highly organised, stay totally calm in a crisis, and know exactly what they're doing. I'm sure they've been watching events this week with extreme interest !
TT
Tumble Tower
David posted:
I hear you accidentally got locked in a train toilet recently. That must have been terrible for you. How did it happen?

That's correct David. How and where did you hear about that?

Mid afternoon Sunday 17 April 2011 I happened to be on a Virgin Trains Super Voyager train from Preston to Birmingham New Street. Shortly after leaving Preston I went to the toilet, which had a button-operated curved sliding door. After entry I closed and locked the door. When I was ready to leave, I tried pressing the Unlock and Open buttons repeatedly, but the door refused to open. I resisted the temptation to press the emergency alarm button, instead I knocked on the door and shouted "Help". Another passenger was standing outside, he obviously heard me as he tried pressing the Open button on the outside without success. Eventually a member of the train crew unlocked the door from the outside and slid it open. I explained that I was unable to open it with the unlock / open buttons, he gathered there must be a problem with the door, so he started fiddling with some "behind the scenes" controls. That's push-button sliding doors for you! Obviously if no-one had heard me knocking the door / shouting, my last resort would have been to press the alarm button.

Gavin Scott posted:
For the benefit of many, could you further explain how some rap is "uneccessary", and indeed where it would be considered "necessary"?

Let's look back over the years:

Denmark 1997: Kolig Kaj "Stemmen I Mit Liv"
The song itself wasn't up to much, and the rap only made it worse. No surprise it scored just 25 points and 16th out of 25.

UK 2001: Lindsay Dracass "No Dream Impossible"
Lindsay's song was reasonably OK in itself, but the backing group totally spoiled it with their rap. That's a prime example of rap being totally unnecessary. Perhaps it might have done better than 28 points and 15th out of 23 without the rap.

UK 2006: Daz Sampson "Teenage Life"
Daz's rap between the girls' choruses was perhaps OK for a hip-hop / rap single but totally like a fish out of water in Eurovision. On top of which the girls' uniforms were outdated; a) I doubt if any schools wear hats these days and b) blazers are going out - sweatshirts rather than blazers are now the norm in almost all primary and many secondary schools. Hardly surprising it scored a meagre 25 points and 19th out of 24.

As I've said before (TV Forum and elsewhere), rap always flops in Eurovision. It just doesn't belong in the Eurovision Song Contest, simple as that. Plenty of other music styles work, but rap doesn't. I've never come across a song yet with rap in that does well in Eurovision. As for Georgia 2011, "One More Day" was bad enough in itself, the rap ruined it still further. Interestingly Georgia perform last on Saturday night (song no 25). I hope they finish last with nul points. They don't deserve to be in the final.

gottago posted:
Croatia and Portugal were bloody awful. I wouldn't be surprised if Portugal scored 0, a truly repulsive song and performance.

What was wrong with Croatia and Portugal? IMHO they were much better than Georgia and Lithuania.

In my opinion, Croatia's "Celebrate" (Daria) was quite a reasonable song, with a catchy chorus. I particularly liked the way the lead singer walked around the arena whilst singing. It deserved to qualify, though perhaps it didn't merit winning on Saturday night.

Portugal had a really catchy, up-beat song from start to finish. I quite liked it, and felt it was one of the better songs of the 19 semi-finalists. In my opinion, it was good enough to qualify to Saturday's final. Going by the English translation of the lyrics on The Diggiloo Thrush it’s undeniably a protest song (and I’ve said before protest songs tend to flop in Eurovision), but I’d have thought its catchy, up-beat nature made up for that, resulting in what I call a good song which deserved to qualify.

In my honest opinion, Croatia and Portugal deserved the places unfairly snatched by Georgia and Lithuania.
GS
Gavin Scott Founding member
I see.
TG
TG
1. Rap songs: You forgot one, TT.

2. (falls asleep after train door rubbish)

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