Was watching an old CITV kids show 'Bad Influence' the other day. It made very proud mention in its title sequence the fact that it was available in 'Dolby Surround' sound. I've seen other shows do this in the UK, and the US made a big deal that its shows were in Dolby Surround and in Stereo at the time.
Is this such a big thing anymore? Do any UK shows actually bother to make a 5.1 mix for transmission, especially live ones like X-Factor? I know Sky is capable of Dolby 5.1, but is Freeview or Freesat? I presume the more expensive dramas do it. The U.S ones certainly do.
Do any UK shows actually bother to make a 5.1 mix for transmission, especially live ones like X-Factor?
Both Freeview HD and Freesat HD are capable of broadcasting a 5.1 mix. SD is probably capable too, but I suspect it just Isn't Done (although see below).
I don't put my surround amp on for much on telly, so apart from films (anything fairly recent or well-known will be in "5.1" on BBC One/Two HD and Channel 4 HD - not sure about ITV HD as I don't have it, but I suspect not) the only thing I'm certain of that is broadcast in 5.1 on UK telly is
Doctor Who
- but the title music is only stereo, which makes for a very weird transition from the 5.1 cold open, into the stereo titles, then into the 5.1 main episode.
Oh, now I think of it, Wimbledon is shown in 5.1 - or certainly was a couple of years ago, at least. And I think the bigger natural history series (Blue Planet and the like) are as well.
That said, a search on Digiguide for 5.1 suggests that all manner or programmes are in 5.1, even on the SD channels. The Proms, Zingzillas on CBeebies, Wizards v Aliens, Family Guy, Hidden Kingdoms, Match of the Day...
Last edited by davidhorman on 16 August 2015 1:29am
ITV are the only (ex-)terrestrial channel not to have any surround sound output, even on films. BBC, Channel 4 and Channel 5 all do.
Unfortunately, it's mostly US shows that have 5.1 at the moment. There are some dramas on the BBC, for example, but not much outside of that. Channel 5 are actually the most prolific, even their idents are mixed properly ( CA in the centre channel), and their homegrown shows too.
Interestingly enough, repeats of shows like HIGNFY or Top Gear go out with a 5.1 mix on Dave HD, but both of those shows always go out in stereo only on their original broadcast on the BBC.
the only thing I'm certain of that is broadcast in 5.1 on UK telly is
Doctor Who
- but the title music is only stereo, which makes for a very weird transition from the 5.1 cold open, into the stereo titles, then into the 5.1 main episode.
Is that do you think why i often see complaints from people that the sound mix on Doctor Who is very much in favour of the music and they can barely hear the dialogue? I can only assume the dialogue is on the centre channel and so those without proper Surround setups get it all mixed together. With only one channel dedicated solely to dialogue, it makes sense the other channels with the music drown it out a bit.
Thats my guess aswell, as all the complaints about poor sound on shows recently (Jamaica Inn, Ripper Street, Dr Who) have been in 5.1. No-one ever complains they can't hear Homes Under the Hammer!
Thats my guess aswell, as all the complaints about poor sound on shows recently (Jamaica Inn, Ripper Street, Dr Who) have been in 5.1. No-one ever complains they can't hear Homes Under the Hammer!
Don't they just switch it to Dolby Digital 2.0 for shows like Homes Under the Hammer?
Most BBC shows are still made in stereo, and delivered for playout with a stereo 2.0 mix. These are broadcast in Dolby 2.0 on HD channels on DSat, and AAC 2.0 on HD channels on Freeview. They are broadcast in MP2 2.0 on SD outlets.
Some shows, Strictly, Eurovision, Doctor Who, Proms, Wimbledon, Olympics, major Football etc. are mixed in 5.1 (or 5.0 or 4.0).
These will usually be sent with a stereo mix AND either discrete 5.1 mix OR a Dolby E encoded 5.1 signal. This is where it gets complicated...
The stereo mix (which may be derived from the 5.1 mix on-site or in the dub) will - I think - be used for the SD outlets MP2 audio. (It may be that it is now derived and down mixed by Red Bee from the 5.1 signal - but I don't think that is the case at the moment)
The 5.1 Dolby E or discrete mix will be used for the HD channels and broadcast in Dolby Digital 5.1 on DSat HD, and AAC 5.1 on Freeview HD.
If you are watching an HD channel in stereo, and it is showing a 5.1 (or 5.0/4.0) show, then the receiver or TV will have to do a 5.1->2.0 down mix. To do this it should use the metadata (which is additional information added by the broadcaster to tell receivers more about the audio content in the 5.1 signal). This metadata needs to be correct AND the receiver doing the down mix needs to do it properly.
The metadata famously went wrong catastrophically on the 2008 BBC Eurovision song contest, where the 5.1 mix was flagged as 1.0 centre only, so viewers at home only heard the centre channel (even when listening in 5.1 properly). The mix that year put live vocals only in the centre, with the backing tracks on the front left and right. So viewers on BBC HD only heard vocals. It was like reverse Karaoke. In those days they couldn't switch to a stereo audio feed, so had to take BBC One's SD feed (with stereo) and up convert...
If a production delivers with the wrong metadata, or the dubbing mixer mixes to one metadata standard, but different metadata is supplied, OR the down mixed stereo audio isn't monitored properly during production (so that they know what it will sound like at home) then problems can occur.
It is often very easy to hear huge differences between the stereo mixes on the SD channel and the stereo down mix made in your TV/receiver on the same show on an HD channel, which suggests that something is amiss.
You can often listen to a music show in 5.1 and it sounds great. You can listen to in stereo on an SD channel and it sounds great. But when you listen to it in stereo, not 5.1, on an HD channel, the vocals sound a bit thin and lost.
Was watching an old CITV kids show 'Bad Influence' the other day. It made very proud mention in its title sequence the fact that it was available in 'Dolby Surround' sound. I've seen other shows do this in the UK, and the US made a big deal that its shows were in Dolby Surround and in Stereo at the time.
ITV flirted with using Dolby Surround - which required a Dolby Surround or Dolby Pro Logic receiver to deliver the surround channels. However the BBC avoided it, as it compromised the mono sound quality of shows mixed in this format, and the BBC were aware there were a lot of non-NICAM TVs out there.
Quote:
Is this such a big thing anymore? Do any UK shows actually bother to make a 5.1 mix for transmission, especially live ones like X-Factor? I know Sky is capable of Dolby 5.1, but is Freeview or Freesat? I presume the more expensive dramas do it. The U.S ones certainly do.
Sky/Freesat use Dolby Digital audio for their HD channels usually - and Freeview HD uses AAC 5.1 (for Audio description reasons it was easier than Dolby). Some Freeview HD tuners will transcode the AAC to Dolby Digital or decode it to 5.1 PCM for output to Amps (as AAC isn't a format that amps use)
When a channel is on Sky and Freesat it is the same actual broadcast used on both - they don't send the same signal twice - so if the Sky version has 5.1, then the Freesat version will have too. (The receivers are similar in spec, though they use different subtitling systems, so channels on both platforms have to send two different styles of subtitles)
Sky, the BBC, Channel Four (not sure about ITV and Five) will usually show US shows that are mixed in 5.1 with a 5.1 mix, and the BBC mixes a few shows in 5.1 like Strictly (usually live shows, as 5.1 post production costs significantly more - so the Saturday Strictly is usually 5.1 but the Sunday recorded results show is 2.0), with Doctor Who a notable 5.1 drama. (Even the SD reboot series were released with 5.1 mixes on DVD, even though we had to wait for the HD shows before they were broadcast in 5.1)
Sky use 5.1 quite a lot on their sport output too. (The BBC mix some sport in 5.1 too)
I don't think ITV use 5.1 much at all - and I'm not aware of any of their big shows being mixed in it.
Granada mixed their Saturday night shows Stars in their eyes and
You've been framed in 5.1 in about 2000
But presumably they only went out, at best, in Dolby Surround (which is matrixed into a 2.0 stereo signal) via NICAM on analogue and 2.0 MP2 on DVB-T/S, unless they were trialling Dolby 5.1 on their DVB-T/DVB-S outlets ?
SVT in Sweden launched their Dolby 5.1 stuff when they were still SD, and were still broadcasting 5.1 SD channels until relatively recently. They now only broadcast stereo audio for their SD channels, precisely because of the issues discussed elsewhere in this thread (though they did simulcast an MP2 stereo down mix to avoid it, people used to select the Dolby version and get a stereo down mix from their receiver). As a result of this history of SVT doing 5.1 - they make a lot of 5.1 shows.
Granada mixed their Saturday night shows Stars in their eyes and
You've been framed in 5.1 in about 2000
But presumably they only went out, at best, in Dolby Surround (which is matrixed into a 2.0 stereo signal) via NICAM on analogue and 2.0 MP2 on DVB-T/S, unless they were trialling Dolby 5.1 on their DVB-T/DVB-S outlets ?
I don't recall any 5.1 broadcasts in the UK as far back as 2000 ? From the mid 1990s, Granada were broadcasting a few of their 'top drawer' programmes using the '2.0 Surround' matrix system which would flow
perfectly through the NICAM transmission system as used on analogue. It also flows through DVB formats, BUT only if the audio bit rate is a minimum of 256k and discrete (rather than joint) stereo. Again, that was fine back then, today the bit burglars have reduced the audio bit rates on most TV channels, to the extent where the surround matrix would be badly damaged.