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Doctor Who in 2005

(September 2004)

NU
The Nurse Granada North West Today
python posted:
I think you didn't understand what I said. The wobbly sets (yes, there were many) and hammy acting are part of the charm of Dr. Who - fans love it!


I did understand what you said; I was disagreeing with the point that the show will still be great with 1970s production values as you were suggesting. Hammy acting and naff props will mean this series of Dr Who really WILL be the last one ever made.

python posted:
The programme makers need to understand that there is a history to this show and that to ignore the fans would be a big mistake.


This is the opinion I have the biggest problem with. I'm sorry but I think this is utter rubbish. How many times has it been mentioned in this thread; the die-hard fans don't count because (a) there aren't enough of them and (b) even if they don't like it, they'll still watch it anyway!

And there are a lot of rational fans (like myself) who accept that what was made before is in the past, and it doesn't really matter if there are a few continuity howlers.

I'm sorry, but the die-hards just need to get them selves a sex life and stop worrying about it. It's going to be great; regeneration or no regeneration!

Interesting the point about Anthony Ainley, now I think about it he was a lot darker and less pantomimey in Survival. So yes maybe I was a bit harsh making reference to him with respect to ham.

Speaking of Survival I happen to think it's a very under-rated story. With sets being what they were in those days, I thought the 100% location stories (I think Curse of Fenric is another one?) work excellently. Gives it a much more convincing feel than those moors in the Brain Of Morbius or something like that. That council estate is fantastically parochial, reminds me of the Jasmin Allen! Shame about Hale & Pace mind you. I wonder if, had Dr Who had carried on in 1989, whether we would have seen more of this style of production, especially as the camera technology was rapidly minaturising, making location shooting easier and cheaper. Even those pink skies on the cat planet (whose name escapes me) aren't too gharish. And the story's good, you end up really feeling for the friendship Ace forms with the girl who turns into the cat. Interesting relations building up between the people trapped on the planet. It's all ruined a bit by that motorbike standoff though where Sylvester conveniently lands in a pile of sofas! Makes me howl with laughter just thinking about it.
:-(
A former member Anglia (East) Look East
Ok, fine, I'm a dinosaur that doesn't count, nothing new there. I stick with my opinion however. If BBC doesn't wish to continue a much loved show as it is loved, then they should just make a new show. A parallel to this is Star Trek in the US. With each successive incarnation, it went further from the original idea and had fewer viewers. The last, Enterprise, is such a departure that most older fans will not watch it, but then they don't count so who cares. If the BBC want to make Dr. Who into a sensational computer graphic wonder, fine, I'll just turn off the telly and read a book. I will stick to my videos of the originals, which I love.
MS
Mr-Stabby London London
I love it when fans go "boohoo it's all changed, i'm not going to watch it"

Well don't! Live in the past, see if I care, i'm going to watch it! Doctor Who made radical changes throughout it's life before, i'm sure i can live with it now!

Would you prefer to watch some more Sylvester McCoy episodes? I wouldn't! We now have highly respected writers and actors making this new series, which should make it 10 times better than it ever has been. I cannot wait to see it!

I know there are some people who are like "oi oi the doctor can't wear a leather jacket, that's too modern, bla bla bla" but lets face it was Tom Bakers costume any more futuristic at the time? Was Peter Davisons cricket getup anything special? Nooooo. So what's the problem!

If you don't want to watch it fine! But it ain't going to stop me!
:-(
A former member Anglia (East) Look East
[quote="The Nurse"]

How many times has it been mentioned in this thread; the die-hard fans don't count because (a) there aren't enough of them and (b) even if they don't like it, they'll still watch it anyway!

And there are a lot of rational fans (like myself) who accept that what was made before is in the past, and it doesn't really matter if there are a few continuity howlers.

I'm sorry, but the die-hards just need to get them selves a sex life and stop worrying about it. It's going to be great; regeneration or no regeneration!

I was going to let this go, but changed my mind. You are so wrong. There are millions of fans around the world who would fall into what you call the 'diehard' category. If you visit any of the many conventions held in this country and tell them they don't matter, you would leave in a stretcher. Even small ones attract 1000 people. Go to another country (US, Germany, Canada....) and you would meet 10s of thousands in one convention. And yes, they will watch the new show, of course they will. The test will be if they watch episode 2. Learn from Star Trek and Star Wars, don't forget your fans, if it weren't for them you would not be here. And if it was any of your business I would tell you my sex life is just fine, but it's not your business, so **** off. Also, shouting will not get me to change my opinion, it's just rude and not rational.
NE
Neil__ Granada North West Today
python posted:
A parallel to this is Star Trek in the US. With each successive incarnation, it went further from the original idea and had fewer viewers.

and
Quote:
Learn from Star Trek and Star Wars, don't forget your fans, if it weren't for them you would not be here.


Can't speak for Star Wars, as I'm not a fan. But as far as Star Trek goes, I can only partially agree. The Next Generation was Classic Trek thoughtfully updated for the 80s and was, in many ways, way more succesful than its predecessor (e.g. in terms of longevity and audience reach). Deep Space 9 was, in my opinion, a clever development of the Star Trek universe ('what would happen if we couldn't just walk away froma situation at the end of the episode?'), although under-appreciated in terms of audience (and, as with all versions of Trek, some dodgy episodes at times).
The problem with Voyager and Enterprise isn't so much that they've moved away from the spirit of Trek as they are much more often poorly plotted/written. Both series had potential (in fact, although I'm not wildly keen on Enterprise, I do feel that its pilot is actually the strongest showing for a Trek pilot).
MS
Mr-Stabby London London
There's a difference between appreciating your fans and basically doing what they want.

What the fans want is definitely not always good for the show, quite the opposite infact.

I seem to remember an "Open Air" episode in the 80s when John-Nathan Turner was being grilled by Doctor Who fans because the new series wasn't exactly what THEY wanted, and JNT was just sucking up the moans and groans of the fans without even giving a word back in response. He was like "Yes yes i understand, i'm taking this on board and I will do what you say" etc etc.

Personally what's going on now is perfect. Russell T Davies is basically saying "Yes we're bringing it back, it's going to have the feel of the old series, but yet be completely different"

If he was to say "Don't worry, the new doctor will wear a stupid scarf and hat and look like a Lautrec poster" then that would worry me. But luckily he isn't Smile
:-(
A former member Anglia (East) Look East
Neil Green posted:


Can't speak for Star Wars, as I'm not a fan. But as far as Star Trek goes, I can only partially agree. The Next Generation was Classic Trek thoughtfully updated for the 80s and was, in many ways, way more succesful than its predecessor (e.g. in terms of longevity and audience reach). Deep Space 9 was, in my opinion, a clever development of the Star Trek universe ('what would happen if we couldn't just walk away froma situation at the end of the episode?'), although under-appreciated in terms of audience (and, as with all versions of Trek, some dodgy episodes at times).
The problem with Voyager and Enterprise isn't so much that they've moved away from the spirit of Trek as they are much more often poorly plotted/written. Both series had potential (in fact, although I'm not wildly keen on Enterprise, I do feel that its pilot is actually the strongest showing for a Trek pilot).



The shows have not, IMHO, moved away from the spirit of Trek, but they have progressively ignored the original characterizations and time lines. Enterprise is the worst in the introduction of the Romulans far too early and in the Vulcan character. I lost interest in it very quickly as did all my Trek friends.

For Dr. Who, the BBC can do what they like, I really don't care as much as some seem to think. I have said many times that I love the show - hammy acting, wobbly sets, silly costumes - all of it. I will watch the new one, but if it's too far away from the original I will simply do something else. The telly is not the focus of my life. I do, however, object strongly to people taking the mick out of sci-fi fans. We are normal people with normal lives who do not appreciate being dismissed as somehow freakish and unimportant. To be attacked for giving an opinion that some disagree with is going too far, something that happens too regularly here.
NE
Neil__ Granada North West Today
python posted:
The shows have not, IMHO, moved away from the spirit of Trek, but they have progressively ignored the original characterizations and time lines. Enterprise is the worst in the introduction of the Romulans far too early and in the Vulcan character.

Oh yeah, I have to agree with you there. Enterprise was always in danger of messing up the timelines - that was always the danger of a prequel. I'm currently even undecided as to whether I would watch a prequel Trek film, which apparently will be the next offering.

Quote:
I do, however, object strongly to people taking the mick out of sci-fi fans. We are normal people with normal lives who do not appreciate being dismissed as somehow freakish and unimportant. To be attacked for giving an opinion that some disagree with is going too far, something that happens too regularly here.

There are a few people who take this place too seriously, as on mnay forums (fora?). Don't take any notice of anyone decrying your interest in sci-fi - I certainly never take any notice of anyone trying to knock me on that account Smile
:-(
A former member Anglia (East) Look East
Thanks Neil, I appreciate that. I do get this all the time as sci-fi is involved in my work, suppose I'm sensitive. Never mind, I'm really not that anal about sticking completely to originals, but they should always have the original in mind when making new or there isn't much point in making something of the same name. If they change things to the point that the fans don't relate to it, then they've lost their core audience and that just seems stupid. Which is what happened to Star Trek and Star Wars (haven't heard one nice thing about ep. 2, have you?) , and I would not like to see that happen to Dr. Who. That's all I was trying (and apparently failing) to say. I hate getting into arguments on here or anywhere else, but some people here seem to live for it. Thanks again.
JC
Jack Carkdale
All the "fear" over how different the new series will be is very odd because...

It's not like it was exactly the same for the whole original 26-years! Rolling Eyes As well as "obvious" changes (different Doctors/companions etc) and cosmetic changes (title sequences, theme tune arrangements etc), there are other bases on which the show had different "eras".

Take the 4th Doctor (Tom Baker) for example: although he was ALWAYS "the funny/silly" Doctor, in his early years/seasons, the "silly" factor wasn't the be-all-and-end-all. But later on - during the Douglas Adams era - the show became a farce/send up of itself; "The Tom Baker Comedy Show".

Then, the 4th Doctor became very sombre and meloncholie (sp?) for his one-and-only JNT season. So, even if you're a "the 4th Doctor is my favourite Doctor" person, the chances are that you might, say, prefer him when his really silly - therefore only really like the Douglas Adams years. Or, say, you generally dislike the 4th Doctor, because you like the show to be relatively serious, so you only find his JNT years tolerable. Or whatever.

So, given the fact that a KEY reason for the original run lasting as long as it did was CHANGE, why are you all so afraid of change?

I was NOT offended by the 8th Doctor's radically different TARDIS console room, his kissing Grace, his willingness to use Americanisms like "vacation" etc etc.

My preference is for JNT/80s Dr Who, but I DON'T hate/loath/despise everything before/since.

Yes, I'm a bit touchy about the *need* for some sort of regeneration, or at the very least, an implied one - e.g. Eccleston initially wearing the 8th Doctor's costume (but not necessarily a McGann wig, like Sylvester pretending to be Colin), or Eccleston showing Rose a photo of McGann when he first meets her, and saying "I looked like this until last week" (or whatever).

So, yes, I'll be disappointed if there isn't some sort of follow-on (even if merely a verbal reference), but the fact that MANY OTHER THINGS (e.g. CGI effects etc) will be different from the old series DOESN'T bother me.

So why does it bother all of you?
NE
Neil__ Granada North West Today
Functional Aesthetic posted:
Yes, I'm a bit touchy about the *need* for some sort of regeneration, or at the very least, an implied one - e.g. Eccleston initially wearing the 8th Doctor's costume (but not necessarily a McGann wig, like Sylvester pretending to be Colin), or Eccleston showing Rose a photo of McGann when he first meets her, and saying "I looked like this until last week" (or whatever).

Good points, till here, FA.
Why on earth would either of these ideas help? Why can't we loyal fans just know that the regeneration happened in an unshown adventure and move on?

Quote:
So why does it bother all of you?

All?
Has every single person in this thread say they have a problem?
DU
Dunedin
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