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Doctor Who- The New Series (W/O spoilers)

(June 2008)

ID
Inflatable Dartboard
Wicko posted:
Considering the "bees are disappearing" has been mentioned frequently during the series, the actual explanation escaped me.


This annoyed me too.

Wicko posted:
I do think it is a fabulous idea to bring everything in RTD's four series to a head just to wrap things up.


Is next week's episode RTD's last, or are the 2009 specials gonna be his swansong?

I'm not sure about the "RTD's greatest hits" approach to last night's episode. As many have said, it seemed to be cramming too much in, at the expense of narrative clarity.

I'm very much a "fan" viewer (as opposed to a "casual viewer"), so it wasn't that much of a problem for me. But, I imagine that the continuity overload of the past couple of episodes in particular has been quite alienating for some "casual viewers".

Pandering to the "fans" to much, was the Classic Series' downfall, as the 1980s wore on. I think it's important that the show never disappears quite that far up it's own bum, again.

Steven Moffatt would be wise to not also take a "Moffatt's greatest hits" approach, if/when his forthcoming era as head writer comes to an end, IMHO.
RR
Ronnie Rowlands
RTD will most certainly be writing this years Christmas special and will probably be involved next year.

I just watched it again and the episode was blown open a little more, some bits clearer, some narrative errors that bugged me.

I think the story was shaping up nicely up until the 'Bees are disappearing' part, but after that it mostly went to pot story wise. I did like the explanation of the 'Indigo Project', and it being taken from the Sontarans, but Martha somehow ending up at home was again, very very weird and confusing. The scene where Rose walks away from that explosion without flinching reminded me of Sylvester McCoy doing the same in 1988's 'The Greatest Show in the Galaxy. I liked the 2 mystery strands that started. First, 'I'm sorry for your loss", and "The Osterhagen key" was also odd, but my fear is that it's going to turn out to be some giant reset button that will lazily conclude and fix the story, like last year's disappointing finale. The scenes with Davros were brilliant, I liked the music that went with it and they provided some good, quiet and haunting intervals, although they were much too short. On a second viewing, I liked what Dalek Caan became, but the explanation for getting into the 'Timelocked' time war being "yet he managed it" really spoilt it for me, it was just so lazy. The line "you know nothing of any human and that will be your downfall" was very cliched, I felt.

A couple of major goofs here. How were any of the televisions working without satellites? Perhaps the Daleks took them, but that's very unlikely. I would have liked to have seen more of the scientific effects of having the whole freaking planet moved. For example, the tide going crazy without the moon. Also, how the hell can planets be kept that close together without them all bumping into eachother or going wild from eachother's gravitational pulls? And finally, the end. Rose had been carrying a big, fuc|< off gun around with her all the way through this episode, why didn't she have it at the end to blow the Dalek to sky-high kingdom-come-bollocks-and-gone?

Pah. This really isn't very good at all. Again, I am deathly scared of next week's finale being resolved with the proverbial 'reset-button'. I'm praying it isn't.
PE
Pete Founding member STV North Reporting Scotland
Ronnie Rowlands posted:
Also, how the hell can planets be kept that close together without them all bumping into eachother or going wild from eachother's gravitational pulls?


but the particular planets arranged themselves into something when brought together, like a giant machine. that was shown when the doctor added the lost moon of pouch to the 3D model thingy
:-(
A former member
for all we know this could roll on to the xmas special, and in turn the 3 speical for next years, and have everything linked
RR
Ronnie Rowlands
Hymagumba posted:


but the particular planets arranged themselves into something when brought together, like a giant machine. that was shown when the doctor added the lost moon of pouch to the 3D model thingy


Oh yes, that was the explanation. Still, it was very vague, as was the rest of the episode. Oh, and it's 'Poosh' Razz
JO
Johnny83 London London
One thing I'm glad about this series is that at least we've visited several other planets this time round rather than just Earth all the time
WI
Wicko Meridian (South) South Today
Ronnie Rowlands posted:
RTD will most certainly be writing this years Christmas special and will probably be involved next year.

I just watched it again and the episode was blown open a little more, some bits clearer, some narrative errors that bugged me.

I think the story was shaping up nicely up until the 'Bees are disappearing' part, but after that it mostly went to pot story wise. I did like the explanation of the 'Indigo Project', and it being taken from the Sontarans, but Martha somehow ending up at home was again, very very weird and confusing. The scene where Rose walks away from that explosion without flinching reminded me of Sylvester McCoy doing the same in 1988's 'The Greatest Show in the Galaxy. I liked the 2 mystery strands that started. First, 'I'm sorry for your loss", and "The Osterhagen key" was also odd, but my fear is that it's going to turn out to be some giant reset button that will lazily conclude and fix the story, like last year's disappointing finale. The scenes with Davros were brilliant, I liked the music that went with it and they provided some good, quiet and haunting intervals, although they were much too short. On a second viewing, I liked what Dalek Caan became, but the explanation for getting into the 'Timelocked' time war being "yet he managed it" really spoilt it for me, it was just so lazy. The line "you know nothing of any human and that will be your downfall" was very cliched, I felt.

A couple of major goofs here. How were any of the televisions working without satellites? Perhaps the Daleks took them, but that's very unlikely. I would have liked to have seen more of the scientific effects of having the whole freaking planet moved. For example, the tide going crazy without the moon. Also, how the hell can planets be kept that close together without them all bumping into eachother or going wild from eachother's gravitational pulls? And finally, the end. Rose had been carrying a big, fuc|< off gun around with her all the way through this episode, why didn't she have it at the end to blow the Dalek to sky-high kingdom-come-****-and-gone?

Pah. This really isn't very good at all. Again, I am deathly scared of next week's finale being resolved with the proverbial 'reset-button'. I'm praying it isn't.


Ronnie, it is so difficult to disagree with anything you say because you always put your points across so elequently and concisely. I will have to disagree on the Bad Wolf episode though. While the pace and suspense was brilliant (as you say once the silly game show aspects had finished), I felt that it was a bit "arrogant" in its delivery. That is difficult to explain I know but it just came across as RTD saying "Look at me I'm so clever" sort of thing.

With regards to Army of Ghosts. I watched that again on Friday and I am actually going to agree with you in hindsight. The build up to the sphere opening and the materialising of the cybermem was suspenseful.

I adored last years finale in its entirety. I appreciate that many have slated LOTTL for it's cheesy messiah comparisons and the rather rushed final sequence. However, for entertaining values it was top notch. Difficult to believe that the Toclafane were being considered as a substitute for the Dalek in episode 6 of series 1 should Terry Nation estate not agreed to the use of the pepperpots.

I still loved last nights episode. It was a very quick, all out episode. With next weeks epiasode lasting 65 minutes, let's hope that there is time to breath. And, in total agreement I hope he doesn't use a reset cop out either. A cleverly thought out conclusion would be greatly appreciated.
ST
Stuart West Country (West) Spotlight
I thoroughly enjoyed last night's episode, there were certainly some very good parts: Davros, Wilf's one-liners and the barking-mad Dalek Caan!

I was abit lost at times because the references were coming thick and fast and you certainly felt that RTD was trying to cram as much in as possible. I watched it again this morning and it was clearer the second time round.

The cliffhanger was amazing. If that really was the end of Tennant's Doctor then it's been the best kept secret in TV this year. I'm looking forward to next week's finale and trying desperately to avoid any trailers or spoilers.

Ronnie pointed out a couple of gaffes but some of these can be explained.
Arrow The absence of the moon wouldn't cause tidal chaos, simply a complete lack of tides at all.
Arrow The satellites could have been moved with the planet inside the "shell" that was said to be regulating the atmosphere and temperature.
Arrow Rose did have that over-sized gun with her when the Doctor was shot; she put it on the ground next to him and it was picked up by Captain Jack when they moved him to the TARDIS.
PE
Pete Founding member STV North Reporting Scotland
what I love is that the trailer that aired today tells you *NOTHING*.

It's so wonderfully useless as a spoiler as all you see is davros ranting on and generic shots of explosions and stuff. It's so nice that everything is secret for once.
ST
Stuart West Country (West) Spotlight
Hymagumba posted:
what I love is that the trailer that aired today tells you *NOTHING*.

On the basis of that endorsement, Hyma, I'll watch the trailer.
RR
Ronnie Rowlands
StuartPlymouth posted:

Ronnie pointed out a couple of gaffes but some of these can be explained.
Arrow The absence of the moon wouldn't cause tidal chaos, simply a complete lack of tides at all.
Arrow The satellites could have been moved with the planet inside the "shell" that was said to be regulating the atmosphere and temperature.
Arrow Rose did have that over-sized gun with her when the Doctor was shot; she put it on the ground next to him and it was picked up by Captain Jack when they moved him to the TARDIS.


Ok, touche Stuart, I can accept that. However, if Rose did have the gun, why did she not blast the Dalek when she saw it?
ST
Stuart West Country (West) Spotlight
Ronnie Rowlands posted:
Ok, touche Stuart, I can accept that. However, if Rose did have the gun, why did she not blast the Dalek when she saw it?

I don't think she had time to manoevour her unwieldy weapon before the Dalek fired. Immediately afterwards she was more concerned about the Doctor, and Captain Jack appeared to deal with the Dalek fairly quickly.

I'm sure her concentration was entirely focused on giving the Doctor a hug as they were running towards each other down the street.

I have to confess to having a lump in my throat and a slight tear in my eye as I was watching their headlong rush towards each other (I blame my emotional reaction on the two copious glasses of wine I'd consumed during the episode). That scene, and the devastating repercussions, were certainly an emotional rollercoaster and the viewer can be forgiven for not questioning why Rose didn't have her wits about her enough to instantly fire when she spotted the menacing assassin appearing from the shadows.

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