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Doctor Who - Discussions on Season 5 onwards

Spoiler Free Please (March 2007)

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UB
Ubernerd
Yeti! Ice Warriors! Now that I would love to see, but it seems like there is an overall narrative arc here. I'd imagine Doctor Who has been planned very well ahead and what we are seeing is the ultimate culmination of a grand plan.

Unfortunately for your particular point of view (which is right in my opinion) we, ala the public, want the Daleks. Doctor Who is a mainstream programme with a populist agenda whilst simultaneously (and thank Heavens for it) a lot of creativity to enable a great sense of credibility, which as a long term (yet untypical) young fan I am very proud of.

Until you can be proven otherwise, I would take up the mentality that this series Dalek story could very well be good, reinvigorate the Daleks, and introduce a deadly foe to a new generation of fans. If popular rumours are proven true, then this new Dalek story could be the shot of adrenaline that Genesis provided back in 1975.
JO
Johnny83
The Glam-Rock-Goth posted:
Yeti! Ice Warriors! Now that I would love to see, but it seems like there is an overall narrative arc here. I'd imagine Doctor Who has been planned very well ahead and what we are seeing is the ultimate culmination of a grand plan.

Unfortunately for your particular point of view (which is right in my opinion) we, ala the public, want the Daleks. Doctor Who is a mainstream programme with a populist agenda whilst simultaneously (and thank Heavens for it) a lot of creativity to enable a great sense of credibility, which as a long term (yet untypical) young fan I am very proud of.

Until you can be proven otherwise, I would take up the mentality that this series Dalek story could very well be good, reinvigorate the Daleks, and introduce a deadly foe to a new generation of fans. If popular rumours are proven true, then this new Dalek story could be the shot of adrenaline that Genesis provided back in 1975.


I didn't think there was going to be a Dalek story this year?

Thing is from 1975 onwards there are huge gaps between the Daleks apperances, infact during what's consider the golden period of classic Who (Series 12-14) they appear once.

The Dalek story from last year is considered one of the weakest stories of last year.

I think the new series really needs to move on from Daleks for a few years & also Rose as well otherwise it's in danger of becoming stale.
UB
Ubernerd
Well there are some pretty crap stories during the 'Golden Years' of Doctor Who. I find that, in terms of quality, Doctor Who is random and that fans try too hard to order quality (or lack-of) which in my opinion is frankly pointless.

It is true that this golden age had one Dalek story, but that was after many years of Doctor Who establishing itself. The show was stronger than the Daleks at that particular point in the show’s history… if that makes any sense.

The new series is still that. New. Very new. I love it, I'm sure you love it, but it only takes a too giant leap away from what the public expect to see a backlash against the show. And let's face it; neither of us wants to see that.

You should treat the new series as a separate entity to the original; connected only through canon. It's what I do. And I end up actually enjoying the show. Something which a lot of fans seem difficult to do… and I find that quite sad to be honest.
JO
Johnny83
The Glam-Rock-Goth posted:
Well there are some pretty crap stories during the 'Golden Years' of Doctor Who. I find that, in terms of quality, Doctor Who is random and that fans try too hard to order quality (or lack-of) which in my opinion is frankly pointless.

It is true that this golden age had one Dalek story, but that was after many years of Doctor Who establishing itself. The show was stronger than the Daleks at that particular point in the show’s history… if that makes any sense.

The new series is still that. New. Very new. I love it, I'm sure you love it, but it only takes a too giant leap away from what the public expect to see a backlash against the show. And let's face it; neither of us wants to see that.

You should treat the new series as a separate entity to the original; connected only through canon. It's what I do. And I end up actually enjoying the show. Something which a lot of fans seem difficult to do… and I find that quite sad to be honest.


You should treat the new series as a separate entity to the original; connected only through canon. It's what I do. And I end up actually enjoying the show. Something which a lot of fans seem difficult to do… and I find that quite sad to be honest.


Actually I DO view them as two completely different series, if only on series structure alone. The point is that alot of youngsters wouldn't have had a clue as to who the Daleks were, they could have easily have created their own monsters to return occasionally, which they have finally done with the Ood.

I do enjoy the current series, rather alot compared to other fans of which I really don't get their constant swiping of the new series. But I still think that we need to lay off of the Daleks, they really are in danger soon of been overused to the point where people will just get bored of seeing them.
UB
Ubernerd
Well like I said, I agree with you. But I have pointed out some valid reasons for their continual presence in the series.

I think this year we are going to get a very climactic Dalek tale… then a nice Dalek rest.

That would work well me thinks.

The Glam-Rock-Goth decrees that:

1. Daleks are brilliant, but should be rested after series four.
2. I need sleep but must continue to engage in this interesting topic whilst trying to storyboard and listen to the same Radiohead song continuously for over an hour!
3. Doctor Who is a smashing series and long may it reign as champion of telebox!
LW
little white dot
Bail posted:
little white dot posted:
There were only five Dalek stories between 1975 and 1989!


er..

The Daleks...
The Dalek Invasion of Earth
The Chase
Mission to the Unknown
The Dalek's Masterplan
The Power of the Daleks
The Evil of the Daleks
Day of the Daleks
Frontier in Space
Planet of the Daleks
Death to the Daleks


= 1963 - 1974.

Bail posted:
Genesis of the Daleks

I count more than five.


= one of the five I meant.

Rolling Eyes
JO
Joe
I think you've been a bit selective with your dates there.
LW
little white dot
Jugalug posted:
I think you've been a bit selective with your dates there.


Indeed I have.

Yes, the pre-1974 era of the Classic Series was as bad/even worse than New Who, for overuse of the Daleks. I wasn't aiming to mislead novice fans, by implying that the whole of the Classic Series was innocent of Dalek overuse.

Highlighting the "Dalek-light" period specifically, was to illustrate that Dr Who can be "Dalek-light" yet still last for years and years - something that New Who will perhaps need to start realising?

Smile
UB
Ubernerd
little white dot posted:
Jugalug posted:
I think you've been a bit selective with your dates there.


Indeed I have.

Yes, the pre-1974 era of the Classic Series was as bad/even worse than New Who, for overuse of the Daleks. I wasn't aiming to mislead novice fans, by implying that the whole of the Classic Series was innocent of Dalek overuse.

Highlighting the "Dalek-light" period specifically, was to illustrate that Dr Who can be "Dalek-light" yet still last for years and years - something that New Who will perhaps need to start realising?

Smile


That is true, but you were (whether intentionally or not) manipulating information to justify your argument without considering various other factors involved in the production teams decision (and a rather bold one at that) to remove the Daleks from the series.

Doctor Who was Dalek light... after years of establishment. The new series hasn't been able to that established itself to the same standard the series had ottained during the reign of Pertwee and Baker as of yet. (In fact, the series was on its last legs during the end of the black and white era! Ratings, production problems, Patrick Troughton’s wife! Etc.)

It has captured the popular imagination once more, but Doctor Who wouldn't have got past the original 14 or so weeks planned in 1963 if it wasn't for the runaway success of The Dead Planet/The Daleks.

…And in fairness to Bail, I hadn't realised you had stated 1975 -1989 either at first! And with the exception of Remembrance, those stories aren't really Dalek ones anyway... Long live Davros!

Peace!
JO
Johnny83
Next series confirmed by the BBC for Saturday 5th April for a 6:20pm start.
DB
dbl
6:20? Early start then
UB
Ubernerd
Didn't last years early starts (Daleks in Manhattan etc) gain a below-average viewership for that particular series?

Seems a slightly odd decision.

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