Doctor Who - Discussions on Season 5 onwards

Those episodes you mentioned were indeed painful, but not through any fault of Christopher Eccleston. I personally think he was a better Doctor than David Tennant. Look at 'Dalek' and 'The Doctor Dances'

Meh, I would, I was hooked from the start to be honest.

Anyone suspect some sort of 'Doctor on trial' for the Christmas episodes?

He's tried to change time. Surely sort of retribution towards him?

Why was I not surprised to see a Dalek feature in one of the specials!!!!

That is one thing I have not liked of RTD's reign over the show - the over-use of the pepper-pots!

Although, in general, the story was good, and was great to see a slightly sinister side to the Doc (with regards to time) it would have been nice to see the Ice Warriors in use in this story - especially with regards to the ice-cap and when it was breaking up.

Knowing now that he can change time, where was he off to at the end, was he going back to get Donna?

Anybody notice the tiny error in the mars exterior? When Yuri was putting up the no trespassing sign in his space suit outside the base, his vizor had a lovely reflection of a blue sky with fluffy clouds in it!

Me too.

The point of these episodes was always going to be "the beginning of the end" for this Doctor, so the fact that the Doctor did little to intervene throughout the whole story was the crux - beautifully performed by Tennant as a man powerless to stop yet more good people being lost because of time's unalterable "fixed points".

Far from being workaday or ho-hum, I found the early part of the story compelling and chilling - a bit like watching footage of a pending disaster.

Its a shame that others viewed this as "just another episode", and a poor one at that. It was clearly anything but; it was different and special and I think should have been viewed in those terms.

This isn't about "pleasing the super-fans". That convention was thrown out at the beginning of the new Who - and its been made palatable to newcomers throughout these series - but goodness me, when just once we're expected to take on board what we know about the story and the character and what he's been through, people are complaining that it was "dull to start off with" - just because he wasn't running around shouting "allons-y!"

He's a broken man, and something within him has twisted and gone wrong. Loss fatigue, it seems.

Anyway, I care not one jot what anyone else thinks - I think it was a triumph, and nothing less than I expected and hoped.

Not to mention fire.. on the surface of Mars after the explosion. Pretty effect but technically impossible.

Why technically impossible? You don't need atmospheric oxygen for combustion - as long as the combustibles include oxygen (or release it as part of the combustion process)

You can have fires burning underwater (believe it or not)

Or are you suggesting that the gravity on Mars would make the flames look different?

I can only speak for myself as someone who was underwhelmed by the first 40 minutes (I wouldn't say it was poor though), but from my point of view, it was that the story was very much treading water for me - for example it was not massively different from other fixed point in time stories such as The Fires of Pompeii only last year - a direct comparison bringing up the companion debate which I suppose is the point and a fairly well made one. However, the plot itself was nothing entirely special or gripping from my point of view (again I must stress up to the 40 minute point - I know it might sound strange since the last 20 is part of the same story, but it seemed a really clear division to me anyway).

I would also say for me that I am by no means a superfan or underwhelmed by the lack of "doctorishness" of The Doctor, just underwhelmed that it seemed to be going through the motions for most of the episode.

I also thought this was a sublime episode. I'm a little lost as to what some people were expecting; this was clearly a deliberately different episode which was meant to set up for the downfall of Tennant's Doctor.

I thought Lindsay Duncan as Adelaide was absolutely phenomenal in role and her interactions with Tennant were outstanding. Their one-on-one chats throughout the show represented the best companion/Doctor interactions since the revival in my opinion.

The story was compelling enough, it didn't feel too slow or too fast and had a good amount of pace, with plenty of twists and a good mystery running throughout. As others have said, the last 10 minutes were magnificent but that does not mean the previous 50 were a waste of time.

Overall it was definitely one of my favourite episodes of Doctor Who since the revival, with stellar performances from Tennant and Duncan, excellent special effects and a tremendous script - I believed every second of the Doctor's struggle and breakdown towards the end.

Beautifully put. I omitted to comment on Lindsay Duncan's performance, it was a tour de force.

Pad and Gavin in 100% agreement. That's got the potential to cause a black hole, I shouldn't wonder.