Forgive me for sounding like an old fart, but having endured yet more repetitive "in-yer-face" trailing and the unprecedented use of the previous year's (or year
s'
in BBC2's case) ident, I can't believe how bad BBC television presentation has become, particularly at Christmas. Ok, in the final analysis it really isn't that important, but for those of us who grew up in the 1970s and 80s, we remember with affection the effort the BBC went to in order to make Christmas look and feel that little bit special...even if the symbols were a bit crude and mechanical, at least they had charm. The current generation of idents (Christmas and otherwise) do absolutely nothing for me...they're just the product of the cynical marketing/branding tactics the BBC now uses to grab viewers at all costs. And that's just it, isn't it? It's all about marketing these days, not presentation. The BBC is behaving just like a commercial broadcaster, and I think it's very sad. Of course the market is far more competitive these days, but there are ways and means of engaging viewers, and I really don't think the BBC is going about it the right way. BBC Broadcast is far too aggressive, unsubtle and cynical in its approach. Most of my viewing was done on the BBC channels....now I can hardly bring myself to watch any of them. RIP BBC Television Presentation
Of course the market is far more competitive these days, but there are ways and means of engaging viewers, and I really don't think the BBC is going about it the right way.
Of course the market is far more competitive these days, but there are ways and means of engaging viewers, and I really don't think the BBC is going about it the right way.
Well you said it yourself there. "There are ways and means of engaging viewers"... but whatever you may think, presentation is not the most important one! Of course it's worthy of discussion, and presentation is one element of a channel's output, but I'm getting sick and tired of reading the same old comments all the time, more or less united in their assertion that it's the end of BBC TV as we know it, or that the BBC has turned it's back on everything good that it once stood for etc, just because it has reused idents from last year.
When will people start to understand that as far as the average person is concerned, as long as the presentation isn't utterly offensive, they won't give a damn about it, and even then precious few would care enough to stop watching the programmes they wanted to watch on the channel initially. People watch TV to enjoy programmes, and apart from the infinitessimal number of persons who consider themselves presentation aficionados, people don't watch TV to catch the junctions in between the programmes, and judge a channel on its idents.
Compared to many countries, the BBC is the best quality TV company in the World. And I cant find any examples of cynasism (sp?) or aggresiveness at all. Infact I think it has become more laid back without being tacky. So it has re-used idents, well christmas is only once a year, and its about kids these days, so there ident is appropriate
Of course the market is far more competitive these days, but there are ways and means of engaging viewers, and I really don't think the BBC is going about it the right way.
Please, do enlighten us as to the right way....
Well the right way certainly isn't endlessly force-feeding us with the same 3 or 4 programme trails and promos for interactive and digital...don't you get sick of them all the time? I certainly do, and they're counter-productive - they enourage me to switch off...is that really what they want? There's something to be said for subtlety, creativity and the clever placement of trails and promos. It's obvious that one trail in a junction is going to have more impact and be more memorable than if it's stuck in a junction cluttered with other things. There are many good programmes that don't get flagged at all because the marketing idiots have decided to focus on 3 or 4 for that particular week and promote them to death. Well it just doen't work with me...and I'm sure it's the same for other people. The BBC is NOT a commercial broadcaster and should therefore not beghave like one. If the programmes are good enough, people will tune in. And more variety and subtlety and less "in-yer-face" trailing would make a huge improvement.
Well you said it yourself there. "There are ways and means of engaging viewers"... but whatever you may think, presentation is not the most important one! Of course it's worthy of discussion, and presentation is one element of a channel's output, but I'm getting sick and tired of reading the same old comments all the time, more or less united in their assertion that it's the end of BBC TV as we know it, or that the BBC has turned it's back on everything good that it once stood for etc, just because it has reused idents from last year.
When will people start to understand that as far as the average person is concerned, as long as the presentation isn't utterly offensive, they won't give a damn about it, and even then precious few would care enough to stop watching the programmes they wanted to watch on the channel initially. People watch TV to enjoy programmes, and apart from the infinitessimal number of persons who consider themselves presentation aficionados, people don't watch TV to catch the junctions in between the programmes, and judge a channel on its idents.
So are you telling me that people on here should stop making a fuss about such things? If so, then what's the point of this forum??!! Quote: '...discussing television presentation and related topics'.
having endured yet more repetitive "in-yer-face" trailing and the unprecedented use of the previous year's (or year
s'
in BBC2's case) ident
Just taking this little bit - I really don't mind the reuse of the last two years BBC TWO Christmas idents; they've added a lovely third one (so they're not just being lazy), and I think the three work together very well. They're probably the best three idents in the BBC TWO set actually, apart from perhaps Fire...
It is a pity about BBC ONE, mind you; but then, it's a bad concept full-stop. I couldn't care less about their Chrimbo idents when the channel looks so bad the rest of the year.
Well you said it yourself there. "There are ways and means of engaging viewers"... but whatever you may think, presentation is not the most important one! Of course it's worthy of discussion, and presentation is one element of a channel's output, but I'm getting sick and tired of reading the same old comments all the time, more or less united in their assertion that it's the end of BBC TV as we know it, or that the BBC has turned it's back on everything good that it once stood for etc, just because it has reused idents from last year.
When will people start to understand that as far as the average person is concerned, as long as the presentation isn't utterly offensive, they won't give a damn about it, and even then precious few would care enough to stop watching the programmes they wanted to watch on the channel initially. People watch TV to enjoy programmes, and apart from the infinitessimal number of persons who consider themselves presentation aficionados, people don't watch TV to catch the junctions in between the programmes, and judge a channel on its idents.
So are you telling me that people on here should stop making a fuss about such things? If so, then what's the point of this forum??!! Quote: '...discussing television presentation and related topics'.
Yep what BBC LDN is saying is to not judge a channel by it's idents but with it's programmes, having said that it was dissapointing not to see a new effort by BBC One, did BBC Two have different idents??, ITV's trailer graphics were awesome, although their celebrity christmas idents sent me to sleep.
Well you said it yourself there. "There are ways and means of engaging viewers"... but whatever you may think, presentation is not the most important one!
Of course it's worthy of discussion, and presentation is one element of a channel's output, but I'm getting sick and tired of reading the same old comments all the time
, more or less united in their assertion that it's the end of BBC TV as we know it, or that the BBC has turned it's back on everything good that it once stood for etc, just because it has reused idents from last year.
When will people start to understand that as far as the average person is concerned, as long as the presentation isn't utterly offensive, they won't give a damn about it, and even then precious few would care enough to stop watching the programmes they wanted to watch on the channel initially. People watch TV to enjoy programmes, and apart from the infinitessimal number of persons who consider themselves presentation aficionados, people don't watch TV to catch the junctions in between the programmes, and judge a channel on its idents.
So are you telling me that people on here should stop making a fuss about such things? If so, then what's the point of this forum??!! Quote: '...discussing television presentation and related topics'.
Excuse me, little girl, but if you'd care to read my comments again - particularly the bits I've highlighted in bold, just for you - you'll see that I never suggested that it shouldn't be discussed. But you seem to think that 'making a fuss about' and 'discussing' things are one and the same, which I can assure you they are not.
It is one thing to discuss television presentation, in a mature and considered manner, including of course the aesthetic debate as well as assessing the functional success of presentation elements. It is quite another thing to chat sh-t about it being the end of the BBC as we know it that they have reused presentation from previous years. It also strikes me as sad, in a way that cannot be adequately articulated, that you have convinced yourself not to watch the BBC as a result of this, and in the process deluded yourself into believing that the BBC's approach to presentation has somehow driven you away.
I am here to discuss television presentation, as are the majority of my fellow members. You are here to talk crap, and - in your own words - to 'make a fuss'.
My point, and it was not a complex one, was that while it is perfectly adequate to discuss TV presentation, it is thoroughly ridiculous to place it in these nonsensical contexts which you use. By all means express your distaste at the BBC's presentation, and please go right ahead and register your disgust that the BBC didn't produce new presentation for Christmas this year; but don't expect us to sit through the rest of your sputum about the BBC failing to engage viewers thanks to its approach to Christmas presentation because that is - not to point too fine a point on it - bo|locks.
Addendum
Digital Spy posted:
Across Christmas Day BBC One held an average of 34.8% of the audience, with a 45.5% share in peaktime. By comparison ITV1 had 24.0% overall and 29.9% in primetime.
MediaGuardian posted:
BBC1 has maintained its lead over ITV1 in the battle for television audiences in 2003, commanding a greater share of viewing than its rival for the third year running. BBC1 recorded a 25.55% share of TV audiences across the year to December 21; ITV's main channel won 23.72%.
I find it interesting that BBC ONE did better on Christmas Day, and indeed overall through 2003, considering its presentation has apparently been "failing to engage viewers". Perhaps Annunciatore could explain, in particular, how ITV1 - with what most people, myself included, believe was the far better Christmas presentation package - had a significantly lower audience share (by a good 15%) than the presentationally inferior BBC ONE?
This is precisely what I mean. It's one thing to discuss TV presentation; it's quite another to make wild - and factually inaccurate - statements about TV presentation just to make a point.
Well you said it yourself there. "There are ways and means of engaging viewers"... but whatever you may think, presentation is not the most important one!
Of course it's worthy of discussion, and presentation is one element of a channel's output, but I'm getting sick and tired of reading the same old comments all the time
, more or less united in their assertion that it's the end of BBC TV as we know it, or that the BBC has turned it's back on everything good that it once stood for etc, just because it has reused idents from last year.
When will people start to understand that as far as the average person is concerned, as long as the presentation isn't utterly offensive, they won't give a damn about it, and even then precious few would care enough to stop watching the programmes they wanted to watch on the channel initially. People watch TV to enjoy programmes, and apart from the infinitessimal number of persons who consider themselves presentation aficionados, people don't watch TV to catch the junctions in between the programmes, and judge a channel on its idents.
So are you telling me that people on here should stop making a fuss about such things? If so, then what's the point of this forum??!! Quote: '...discussing television presentation and related topics'.
Excuse me, little girl, but if you'd care to read my comments again - particularly the bits I've highlighted in bold, just for you - you'll see that I never suggested that it shouldn't be discussed. But you seem to think that 'making a fuss about' and 'discussing' things are one and the same, which I can assure you they are not.
It is one thing to discuss television presentation, in a mature and considered manner, including of course the aesthetic debate as well as assessing the functional success of presentation elements. It is quite another thing to chat sh-t about it being the end of the BBC as we know it that they have reused presentation from previous years. It also strikes me as sad, in a way that cannot be adequately articulated, that you have convinced yourself not to watch the BBC as a result of this, and in the process deluded yourself into believing that the BBC's approach to presentation has somehow driven you away.
I am here to discuss television presentation, as are the majority of my fellow members. You are here to talk crap, and - in your own words - to 'make a fuss'.
My point, and it was not a complex one, was that while it is perfectly adequate to discuss TV presentation, it is thoroughly ridiculous to place it in these nonsensical contexts which you use. By all means express your distaste at the BBC's presentation, and please go right ahead and register your disgust that the BBC didn't produce new presentation for Christmas this year; but don't expect us to sit through the rest of your sputum about the BBC failing to engage viewers thanks to its approach to Christmas presentation because that is - not to point too fine a point on it - bo|locks.
You really are an arrogant, aggressive, presumptious and unpleasant little person, aren't you? If you are typical of the people who frequent this forum, then it's not worth wasting any time here, especially if self-important little oiks like you haven't the good grace or decency to take on board other people's feelings without jumping down their throats and being quite vile about it...but then I suppose that comes quite naturally to someone like you. And I'm far from being a "little girl"...you big twit!
