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cat2,504 posts since 4 Jan 2003
No, I think you might have got this wrong.
Ok, about 100% of the population know ITV as a TV station, no-one knows Sky as a TV station.
Sky is known as a network, ITV is not.
People instantly recognise Sky as a service whereby they can get extra channel, people instantly recognise ITV as the 3 button on their remote control, essentially a CHANNEL, people think ITV is a channel, not a service.
I recon if you walked up to someone in the street and asked them what ITV Digital was, they would tell you it was ITV on Sky.
To be honest, Sky is much of a dominant brand in the mulitchannel environment to ever be threatened, two challengers, BSB and OnD, have come, and failed, ITV digital will simply be no different, and they too, like OnD will suffer an identity crisis.
Square Eyes7,226 posts since 31 Mar 2001
Well I think ITV have a fairly good chance of getting the population to understand that it is, as you put it a network. As Britains most popular broadcaster and a well established brand, I think they can easily make the transition from channel to network. Nobody had ever heard of ONdigital or BSB but ITV has been around for years before Sky was even a twinkle in Murdoch's eye.
cat2,504 posts since 4 Jan 2003
Let me correct you on, well basically all of that.
Sky did not come from Murdoch, it was not created by News Corp at all.
It was created by a director of Thames Television as 'Sky Channel' which was sold and have very high penetration throughout Europe.
Sky Channel remained at Sky's launch in the UK in 1989, it was bought by Murdoch in 1974, when there was simply Sky Channel.
Sky Channel remained until a year later, when it was renamed Sky One.
and the fact that No-one had heard about BSB is very wrong indeed.
BSB was essentially a group of fat cats sitting about a desk trying to make millions, they launched a giant publicity campaign, far far more expensive than that of Sky's.
Sky was not available in places such as 'Dixons' and Comet, BSB was, yet no-one bought it, and it was doomed from the start.
OnD follows the same theme.
ITV was actually not known as 'ITV' until the full rebranding in 1989, hence the 'Get Ready for ITV' slogans that dominated our screens during 1989, it was only very rarely reffered to, and was simply called what ever you local tv station was called, i.e. TVS, TSW, Thames etc.
TVS not once reffered to itself as 'ITV' it refused the ITV branding in 1989, and sadly is not around anymore so did not get a go at the 1999 hearts relaunch, ITV was not a brand that was well known as a station until 89, when they attempted this, and to an extent achieved it.
And that is just the thing, in practice it looks as easy as pie to simply change from channel to network, as Carlton and Granada have so easily proved, it is not, OnDigital failed and ITV will simply follow in it's footsteps, it is, without doubt, a latter day BSB.
cat2,504 posts since 4 Jan 2003
Interestingly....
Marcopolo house was the HQ of BSB, it is now home to OnDigital (and QVC).
It has all the credentials to be a latter day BSB.
Square Eyes7,226 posts since 31 Mar 2001
If the point that you are getting around to is that Sky is a better known name than ITV, you must be having a laugh. The vast majority of the population have never switched on a Sky TV Channel, but all of them have watched ITV.
cat2,504 posts since 4 Jan 2003
You seem to be missing the point, we are not talking about channels.
Sky is a better known name at doing what it is doing, ITV is a better known name at doing what it is doing.
The fact is for either network to simply switch roles (which is what ITV is planning on) is not at all a realistic prospect.

With that post you have simply and eaily proved my point.
The majority of people have switched on ITV, but that is just the thing..... they have just switched it on.. as a channel, yet you said they have never switched on 'A' Sky TV channel, as in lots of channels.
Sky is a network, and ITV is not, and it is not, will not and can not be recognised as one.

I know all about Sky's role and how it actually got there, and believe me, If I had told Micheal Green in Knightsbridge that his little beauty, that he had spent 3 years planning, would be rebranded ITV Digital, he would have laughed in my face, yet it was inevitable at the start.
OnD was, from its very first few moments, known as a latter day BSB, and it has simply gone a long way to proving that.
The fact is, ITV will not succeed with a digital service because the vast majority of people will have no clue as to what it is, and hence will look elsewhere to Sky, the only station which has experience in it's field.
Square Eyes7,226 posts since 31 Mar 2001
It's great the way you try to twist what people are saying, you were arguing that ITV wasn't a recognised brand as much as Sky and it was that which I refuted. Don't forget that ITV already is a network in that it is made up of many tv stations. The 2 big companies involved in ITV are already involved in multi channel TV, with the big difference that ITV are good programme makers, Sky are not. With cross channel exposure on Britain's most popular Channel (and network), ITV will make this venture a success. Goodnight.
Spiring
cheshirec posted:
it was bought by Murdoch in 1974, when there was simply Sky Channel.
Sky Channel remained until a year later, when it was renamed Sky One.
Sky One didn't exist until 1990! You meant 1989, not 1974! Sky became a network when they merged with BSB - BSB's Movie Channel became two channels - Sky Movies Plus and The Movie Channel (now Sky Moviemax and Sky Premier). Sky News was also launched at this time, although there was no BSB News channel.
cat2,504 posts since 4 Jan 2003
The channel, Sky Channel was bought by Murdoch in 1974, when the network launched in Feb 1989 they had four channels:
Sky Channel
Sky News
Sky Movies
Eurosport
BSB launched months later, with their channels.
They merged in 1991, Sky One was renamed a year after launch in 1990...
Sky was a network before they merged with BSB.
Sky Movies Plus was not launched at the time of the merger, simply Sky Movies, and the movie channel only came along when Sky Movies was renamed Plus.
Sky News is the oldest of all Sky channels, as it was launched in 1989, and is the only original channel remaining from launch.
There was no BSB news channel, however there was a BSB News Service.
MJL
chesirec you've proved your point...I can only agree with you. People I know will disagree with this but I think SKY is bigger than ITV, because Sky has an international influence. Hell, people here in Turkey know what Sky is. We get Sky News and, though it annoys me like hell how we can't press the little red button on a remote control we don't have, people actually watch it here. Sky News, I admit, is not Europe's largest news channel because it isn't aimed an international audience nor will it ever be, but people all over Europe and the world actually sit down and watch Sky News instead of BBC World, EuroNews or CNN International.

That's only one example. Sky One is to made available here and it already is available across the continent. Even [.tv] (a not-so-well-known Sky channel) is reportedly starting up a Turkish version for viewers in Turkey!

The point I'm trying to make is, Sky is without a doubt the world's largest and most sucessful analogue and digital satellite platform. Other providers across the planet boast slogans such as 'We use Sky's technology'.

I know what I've just said has got nothing to do with what cheshirec said about Sky being a big name in terms of multichannel packaging and ITV being a big name only as a channel, but what I'm trying to prove is that Sky is a bigger and much more well known company than ITV.
Spiring
cheshirec posted:
The channel, Sky Channel was bought by Murdoch in 1974, when the network launched in Feb 1989 they had four channels:
Sky Channel
Sky News
Sky Movies
Eurosport
BSB launched months later, with their channels.
They merged in 1991, Sky One was renamed a year after launch in 1990...
Sky was a network before they merged with BSB.
Sky Movies Plus was not launched at the time of the merger, simply Sky Movies, and the movie channel only came along when Sky Movies was renamed Plus.
Sky News is the oldest of all Sky channels, as it was launched in 1989, and is the only original channel remaining from launch.
There was no BSB news channel, however there was a BSB News Service.

Sky don't own Eurosport.
cat2,504 posts since 4 Jan 2003
I never said they did, but Eurosport was one of the 4 orignal channels, just as the Disney Channel was advertsied at launch (although only appeared many years later).
And Sky is technically the world leader in satellite television, hence the 1993 slogan 'From the World Leader in Satellite television....'