Did the BBC 2 Test Card ever have the 1986 "TWO" ident? - Page 11

MA

Markymark 14 August 2020 7:56am

(and I’m also guessing that the synchs for the two networks were separate and not necessarily locked to the same master synch).

I'd often stuff BBC 1 and 2 into a waveform monitor for a laugh and most of the time they'd be more or less in sync with each other.

(Also the case for TVS and C4, which is not surprising as that was the era ITV did comms insertion for C4)

CO

commseng 14 August 2020 8:50am

deejay posted:

The OUCON suite at the end of the corridor was an entirely separate operation to NC1 and 2 and could actually play programmes to both networks at the same time, which is why there were holding slides between programmes when one announcer was doing both. It was all U Matic tape based, so bypassed the television centre VTR department, and the announcers loaded the tapes and ran them to the network. I am just guessing here, but presumably because the suite worked to both networks it couldn’t therefore genlock to either (and I’m also guessing that the synchs for the two networks were separate and not necessarily locked to the same master synch). I have heard that each network control room had an OU Switch that put control of the network through to OUCON.

It’s also well known that while a non synch cut from source to source was relatively invisible on television sets, VCRs were far more upset by them, so surviving recordings subsequently uploaded to YouTube make these cuts look far more violent than they actually were.

As I didn't work at TVC, I'm not 100% on this, but my understanding was that CAR generated the syncs used by everything, including both BBC 1 and BBC 2 network control.
In fact, as the next cog in the chain, our waveform monitor was locked to external syncs generated from Net 1. Net 2 locked to it exactly, so I am reasonably confident that was the case.
Next point north, Pebble Mill, also used to lock their SPG to the incoming Net 1 feed every morning, and would have used that for everything, and I can't imagine that any of the other studio centres with both networks going through them would have done anything different.

CO

commseng 14 August 2020 8:51am

Markymark posted:

deejay posted:

(and I’m also guessing that the synchs for the two networks were separate and not necessarily locked to the same master synch).

I'd often stuff BBC 1 and 2 into a waveform monitor for a laugh and most of the time they'd be more or less in sync with each other.

(Also the case for TVS and C4, which is not surprising as that was the era ITV did comms insertion for C4)

I really think you need to get out more!

IS

Inspector Sands 14 August 2020 9:28am

commseng posted:

As I didn't work at TVC, I'm not 100% on this, but my understanding was that CAR generated the syncs used by everything, including both BBC 1 and BBC 2 network control.

That would have to be the case surely? CAR handled everything going into those network controls (and what was coming back out again) so couldn't be working to multiple sync pulses. The rest of the building would have had to have been on the same hymn sheet too of course - especially VT and telecine

Last edited by Inspector Sands on 14 August 2020 9:35am

BL

bluecortina 14 August 2020 9:39am

Where I worked in ITV all pulses were generated in CAR. But every studio, and the presentation areas, had their own set of independently generated pulses. We also had two sets of stable black and burst.

CO

commseng 14 August 2020 9:45am

What would be the reason for all the studios and pres areas having their own independent SPGs?
It sounds as if that would cause far more problems than it would solve?

MA

Markymark 14 August 2020 9:56am

commseng posted:

What would be the reason for all the studios and pres areas having their own independent SPGs?
It sounds as if that would cause far more problems than it would solve?

Was it because before frame synchronisers, ITV companies would 'drift and swing' their pres area pulses to sync up with the next network programme source ? You wouldn't want the whole building to do that ! ?

CO

commseng 14 August 2020 10:13am

Good point - I hadn't considered that.
It's amazing how much better it became when syncronisers became standard items!
Kids these days must wonder what all the fuss was about....

MA

Markymark 14 August 2020 10:19am

commseng posted:

Good point - I hadn't considered that.
It's amazing how much better it became when syncronisers became standard items!
Kids these days must wonder what all the fuss was about....

Before I discovered girls, I used to detune Southern ITV slightly, which allowed BBC 1 to bleed over on top of the picture. I could then see when Southern advanced or retarded their SPG in the seconds leading up to cutting to a network fed programme

(Hannington's signal was so strong for my bedroom telly, it was easy to do this!)

CO

commseng 14 August 2020 10:35am

The simple pleasures of life - now all impossible - no Southern moving its syncs and no analogue tv.
By the time I was starting to understand the nuts and bolts of it all the signals were all quite weak from Hannington, CP and Oxford, so I couldn't do the same.

BL

bluecortina 14 August 2020 10:35am

Markymark posted:

commseng posted:

What would be the reason for all the studios and pres areas having their own independent SPGs?
It sounds as if that would cause far more problems than it would solve?

Was it because before frame synchronisers, ITV companies would 'drift and swing' their pres area pulses to sync up with the next network programme source ? You wouldn't want the whole building to do that ! ?

Yes. But even well after the era of synchronisers we still had separate pulse chains for each area including standby SPG’s and automatic changeover units. This required separate time code generators too.

A good policy even if it added to complexity and expense.

We would idly check ourselves against the BBC on occasion - to see how accurate they were.

BL

bluecortina 14 August 2020 10:39am

Didn’t the BBC have those modified dilithium crystal controlled NTSC SPG’s ? With cut cable lengths under the false floorIng of the donut to get every source timed to every destination? Hence why the building is circular to ‘lose’ the cables? I’m sure I have a paper on it somewhere.