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Culture Secretary unveils plans for new national TV channel

Jeremy Hunt plans national Freeview channel with local content (January 2011)

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:-(
A former member
Remember what Michael grade said, "ITV would be happy to place slots on the network for regional news," There is some willing ness to allow it to happen,
MA
Malpass
I believe that ITV should keep their regional news - with no extra funding from either TVL or extra "primetime" advertising revenue. ITV know their PSB commitments and should adhere to them or hand their Channel 3 Licences back.


That would necessitate a hard-line approach from Ofcom - something I don't see happening. They've let ITV get away with slowly stripping away regionality for a while now and I don't imagine they'll want to get involved all of a sudden.
JJ
jjne

Why on earth would you call for local content to be cut.


He isn't.

For two of the regions of England that have traditionally appreciated regionality the most, his proposal would be a significant improvement.
BR
Brekkie
Is it fair the Public pay twice for Regional News though (BBC and ITV's offering)? I think that post 2014 Ofcom/ITV should agree to reduce ITV's Regional News commitment to 25 minutes a weekday (10 minutes on weekend days) - Weekdays: 5 minutes between 6:00 and 7:00, 15 minutes between 18:00 and 18:15 and 5 minutes after News at Ten.


ITVplc no longer have much of a regional commitment in many of their 'pan-regional' areas. Furthermore, we're not 'paying for [local news] twice': ITV's revenue is commercially based and we all pay through the cost of items we buy, whether we get regional news or even watch ITV's channels.

I also believe the BBC should reduce it's Regional News commitment to the 9 English Government Regions and the Home Nations, as well as keeping their Regional Non-News programming.


I assume you'd make sure that the Midlands was still served as a single region under your plan, and not amalgamated with Wales, the North West, or East Anglia?

As I've said before this idea that once we all went digital we'd no longer be interested in regional TV was absolute **** (the combined audience of BBC Regional News is often their biggest audience of the night outside EastEnders) and why OFCOM let ITV get away with that line for so long I don't know. I don't believe any money from the licence fee should be diverted away from the BBC to fund these local stations or ITV regional content, but I wouldn't be opposed to OFCOM allowing ITV an extra few minutes of advertising in primetime (upping it from 40-45 minutes) to help fund regional content.


So, your argument is contradictory. Either 'Local TV' or 'Regional TV' has a future, you seem to be making cases for both.

Those first two quotes are not mine Stuart. As you bring it up though I don't see why "Local" and "Regional" TV has to be mutulally exclusive, though I think regional TV is the better model. That said sub regions could work - but I think they need to be part of something bigger, so for example using Granada as an example in the North West if they also had Granada Manchester and Granada Liverpool those stations IMO would have a much greater chance of succeeding than independent Manchester and Liverpool stations.
NG
noggin Founding member
That said sub regions could work - but I think they need to be part of something bigger, so for example using Granada as an example in the North West if they also had Granada Manchester and Granada Liverpool those stations IMO would have a much greater chance of succeeding than independent Manchester and Liverpool stations.


Isn't this where the UK model diverges from the US model?

In the US the geography of TV transmitters (plus the popularity of cable) means that there are often transmitters (and thus local stations can exist) per town - as the towns are far more spread out - so the hyper-local model works. In many parts of the US each town/city has a dedicated TV transmitter, or transmitters - and local stations as a result.

In the UK (and Europe in general) we're so much smaller as a country that single transmitters cover lots of towns and cities (as the town and cities are far less spread out), and our terrestrial network is based around providing universal coverage of networked stations (and we achieve significantly higher percentage population coverage on terrestrial as a result)

As a result - editorial or town-based sub-regions don't map neatly in the UK (and to a wide degree Europe). To quote your example - Granada Manchester and Granada Liverpool sub-regions aren't possible with a single transmitter (Winter Hill) covering both areas - unless you were to allocate separate muxes to each region (which is expensive as it is duplicating spectrum)

If the TV landscape were more cable-centric, then you could engineer more localised services, but we're not.

Europe has historically gone down a national network with regional variations model - and I, personally, don't see that changing. If anything I see terrestrial TV becoming less and less varied - as the RF spectrum is squeezed, with local services being IP-based. (Look already at the move to put IP stuff on Freeview HD) Making money out of local services is the other issue I guess...
BR
Brekkie
Exactly Noggin. I guess if "Granada" did exist and they had enough mux space for 4 channels or so they might broadcast Granada, Granada Manchester, Granada Liverpool and rent out the fourth, but in reality the more local versions would probably simulcast or repeat a lot of content from it's parent company.
RI
Rijowhi
Well I'd have thought the answer would have been for extra funding given to ITV Regional news teams and maybe more partnerships with regional newsrooms.

There is an appetite for local news, not on the scale as America, and i think what we had up until around late 2000's was sufficient.


Is it fair the Public pay twice for Regional News though (BBC and ITV's offering)? I think that post 2014 Ofcom/ITV should agree to reduce ITV's Regional News commitment to 25 minutes a weekday (10 minutes on weekend days) - Weekdays: 5 minutes between 6:00 and 7:00, 15 minutes between 18:00 and 18:15 and 5 minutes after News at Ten. As part of this commitment, ITV would produce 25 minutes of Regional News for something similar to the pre-2008 sub-regions along with a 30 minute weekly Politics/Current Affairs/Lighter Stories show (something like 'Central' Life?).

I also believe the BBC should reduce it's Regional News commitment to the 9 English Government Regions and the Home Nations, as well as keeping their Regional Non-News programming. With both BBC and ITV reducing (but keeping) their Regional News commitments, this could allow Local TV to thrive (though as previously stated I'm not keen on the current idea, if technically possible I think it should be part of Channel 5's commitments post 2014 to broadcast the Local TV stations as part of their schedule). Then we could have the best of both world's - Local and Regional as well as National and International of course.

Why on earth would you call for local content to be cut. I do think what we have now is about right and apart from the odd daytime update the amount of local news on BBC and ITV hasn't actually changed much in the last 20-30 years - although in some cases the regional news isn't quite as regional as it once was.

I agree with Shaun that the 1990s system worked well - whether that is 15 regional companies or ITV offering regional content nationwide, and the demand for anything more local than regional news is pretty low, although there are areas where sub-regions might be beneficial - but not crucial. It is the non-regional news programming which is the bigger problem - I do think English regions should aim for 30 minutes a week, with 2-3 hours in Scotland, NI and Wales.

As I've said before this idea that once we all went digital we'd no longer be interested in regional TV was absolute **** (the combined audience of BBC Regional News is often their biggest audience of the night outside EastEnders) and why OFCOM let ITV get away with that line for so long I don't know. I don't believe any money from the licence fee should be diverted away from the BBC to fund these local stations or ITV regional content, but I wouldn't be opposed to OFCOM allowing ITV an extra few minutes of advertising in primetime (upping it from 40-45 minutes) to help fund regional content.

These issues today though pretty much stem back to poor decisions taken over the last couple of decades. Really I suspect any concerted effort to expand regional and local TV in the UK should have come with the launch of DTT, with half a mux reserved at launch for local services.


Believe it or not, I just believe the 25 minutes of sub-regions idea could be a better system for ITV, Ofcom and of course the Viewers (who have had a rough deal over the last few years). I agree with you that ITV's English regions (Channel Islands too?) need at least 30 minutes Non-News Regional Programming, as well as the Home Nations needing a reasonable amount of 'National' programming too as you stated. The reason I stated some cuts to the BBC Regional News is simply I feel there is a chance for Local TV to thrive.

I agree the idea that no one is interested in Regional TV is **** too, could this be the same for Local TV? As for money for ITV's Regional News, maybe they could amend the Contract Rights Renewal agreement to help fund the programming? I don't think any more adverts is the answer though as ITV could become close to unwatchable with any extra advertising. As stated I feel for Local TV they should have trialed the service via Channel 5 if possible. Could the Local TV services have used Licence Fee money going towards the project for a few years to see if it could become viable? If it doesn't work then fair enough, why should pay for Private Business...unless some sort of Trust is set up for Local TV services using a small amount of the Licence Fee?

And yes I agree so many poor decisions have been made regarding Local and Regional News...so very true. Is it all too little, too late?
RI
Rijowhi
Remember what Michael grade said, "ITV would be happy to place slots on the network for regional news," There is some willing ness to allow it to happen,


Though to be fair that was the old management team that said that, ITV seem slightly more keen to keep some form of Regional News...slightly.
RI
Rijowhi
Is it fair the Public pay twice for Regional News though (BBC and ITV's offering)? I think that post 2014 Ofcom/ITV should agree to reduce ITV's Regional News commitment to 25 minutes a weekday (10 minutes on weekend days) - Weekdays: 5 minutes between 6:00 and 7:00, 15 minutes between 18:00 and 18:15 and 5 minutes after News at Ten.


ITVplc no longer have much of a regional commitment in many of their 'pan-regional' areas. Furthermore, we're not 'paying for [local news] twice': ITV's revenue is commercially based and we all pay through the cost of items we buy, whether we get regional news or even watch ITV's channels.

I also believe the BBC should reduce it's Regional News commitment to the 9 English Government Regions and the Home Nations, as well as keeping their Regional Non-News programming.


I assume you'd make sure that the Midlands was still served as a single region under your plan, and not amalgamated with Wales, the North West, or East Anglia?


The original point was calling for ITV to be given extra advertising time though, I don't agree with that. As you say we already pay for Regional TV through what we buy. That said though ITV's Licence loses value each year hence why I called for a reduction to the amount of Regional News (but with sub-regions which I believe could better serve the audience).

Under the proposal the BBC would serve the Midlands with two Government Regions - West Midlands and East Midlands. The reduction to both the BBC and ITV's Regional service could help Local TV services, though if technically possible I think these services should be connected to a existing National network - Channel 5. It could truly add something new to our Public Service Broadcasting...and everyone would be served unlike the current plan (though I admit it probably wouldn't be City/Town based for all services but potentially better than the Regional sub-regions).
JJ
jjne
I'll tell you the best way to bring back proper local/regional broadcasting to this country.

Break it. Get rid of it completely.

The British are quite happy to bumble along with the most tenuous compromise, the path of least resistance.

Make them realise the value of proper representation by taking it away.

There'd soon be demand for its return, and we might then be able to come up with something that'll actually work.
TR
trivialmatters
The UK is tiny and to all extents and purposes does not need local news channels. We should perhaps entertain the idea if it hadn't already been done, tried in one of the UK's biggest cities, backed by a big media organisation, and died on it's arse because there's absolutely zero demand for it.
GO
gottago
It's quite interesting to compare ITV today to TV4 in Sweden which currently produces 25 regional news programmes in a country of only 9 million. As far as I can tell they don't receive any government/license fee funding for these programmes and last year they began airing regional content on their main digital channel. Typically audiences in Sweden do watch more news than in the UK (80% vs 66% daily reach) but still, the contrast between the two quite similar organisation is quite astonishing. I believe a few of the regions were run by other companies until TV4 bought them as well.

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