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Complaints to Ofcom about C4 ident!

(April 2007)

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RM
Roger Mellie
tvarksouthwest posted:
Roger Mellie posted:
Why would you oppose a legal requirement for helmets? No different from motorcycle helmets or seatbelts in cars surely?

Because we should be free to choose. Notwithstanding that helmets are not pleasant to wear, any attempt to make them compulsory will harm efforts to encourage people, especially children, to take up cycling. This itself would devastate the anti-obesity drive (something I have little time for as it's motivated by a desire to save the NHS money, rather than altruistic reasons).

Seat belts should be a matter of choice also.


Playing devil's advocate here.... Maybe reminding people why helmets are a good idea, wouldn't dissuade people from wearing helmets? Just like drink-driving campaigns and seat-belt campaigns? What about wearing helmets for motorcyclists? Should that be choice too?

Laws to make motorcyclists wear helmets and motorists to wear seatbelts hasn't dissuaded people from using cars or motorbikes has it?

Preventing serious head injuries or death by head injuries is more important than preventing obesity I would have thought. Obesity can be combatted in other ways other than cycling-- it isn't the only form of exercise!

Passing a law for compulsory helmet-wear would make people think twice about wearing a helmet possibly. There's a saying that goes: "A good shock is usually better than good advice". A "shock" from the law would be far better than a "shock" from having your skull caved in, I would say.

"Not pleasant to wear" Rolling Eyes -- well surely wearing an "uncomfortable" helmet for a bike ride is far more comfortable than head injuries, or living with brain damage for the rest of your life. It is certainly more pleasant than death I would guess. A helmet is a lot tougher than a skull after all-- ask Headway.

Anyway rant over!
MI
Mich Founding member
Roger Mellie posted:

Playing devil's advocate here.... Maybe reminding people why helmets are a good idea, wouldn't dissuade people from wearing helmets? Just like drink-driving campaigns and seat-belt campaigns? What about wearing helmets for motorcyclists? Should that be choice too?

Laws to make motorcyclists wear helmets and motorists to wear seatbelts hasn't dissuaded people from using cars or motorbikes has it?

Preventing serious head injuries or death by head injuries is more important than preventing obesity I would have thought. Obesity can be combatted in other ways other than cycling-- it isn't the only form of exercise!

Passing a law for compulsory helmet-wear would make people think twice about wearing a helmet possibly. There's a saying that goes: "A good shock is usually better than good advice". A "shock" from the law would be far better than a "shock" from having your skull caved in, I would say.

"Not pleasant to wear" Rolling Eyes -- well surely wearing an "uncomfortable" helmet for a bike ride is far more comfortable than head injuries, or living with brain damage for the rest of your life. It is certainly more pleasant than death I would guess. A helmet is a lot tougher than a skull after all-- ask Headway.

Anyway rant over!


One argument although with Simon's other views i'd be surprised if it were his...it is a little "Free Market".

Advise people of the risks of not using safety equipment and the advantages of doing so by all means; however why force them to do it?

If they know about the risks, why should you intervene in their decision. Any rational person would wear a seatbelt; but if an idiot doesn't want to, i'd be happy to benefit from their donor organs.

The only argument for legislation under this viewpoint is that it if not wearing safety equipment put others in danger. For example a problems with smoking is the effects of passive smoking - this is what economists call a Negative Externality (look it up on wikipedia). This doesn't seem to hold with seatbelts - the benefit accrues solely to the wearer; in fact there is a very interesting body of work that suggests they increase the risks to others (creating a negative externality) because they cause people to drive more recklessly.

Off topic, but interesting.
TV
tvarksouthwest
Well Mich - your response is exactly the same one I'd have given, so what can I add to that! Educate people by all means. Same with obesity. Don't tell them what to do.
:-(
A former member
I think they had to get rid of the original Grange Hill titles because they were scared that kids would follow the sausage pushing incident which ( a ) wastes food and ( b ) leads to bad manners at tables.

Cool Flippin 'eck
TV
tvarksouthwest
Ha! Well if that's why it was axed, it took them a long time to realise the dangers, because those titles ran from 1978-1987 inclusive. The sausage on the fork is supposed to represent food being thrown, not pushed into someone's moosh, according to BBC graphic designer Liz Friedman.

Such was the enduring image the sausage was re-introduced to Grange Hill's titles in 2003, and in the current "computer game" theme is depicted as a weapon which fells a dinner lady.
RM
Roger Mellie
tvarksouthwest posted:
Well Mich - your response is exactly the same one I'd have given, so what can I add to that! Educate people by all means. Same with obesity. Don't tell them what to do.


I kind of agree with you.

It just that you had presented speculation and opinion as fact in your previous post... I couldn't let that go unchallenged-- hence my Devil's Advocate moment Laughing

Whilst it seems inconsistent that we make equestrians and bikers wear helmets when riding, but not for cyclists and cycling, these laws do have public safety in mind rather just nanny-statism I woud say....

However , you ideally should let people choose and use their own common sense-- most cyclist wear them these days anyway. Personally I don't find helmets are uncomfortable, and I think you be daft not to wear one if you are a cyclist!! That of course is just my opinion; whether the law should dictate that I'm not sure, but I'd probably argue against such a law.

Besides, this has little to do with C4 idents or Ofcom Laughing
RU
rubberduck3y6
I'm sure the guy in ITV1's lake ident isn't wearing a life jacket while her's rowing the boat!
JO
Joe
And I don't see any signs on the lake warning you of the depth.
TV
tvarksouthwest
Reminds me of Trago Mills in Newton Abbott. The management there are very outspoken and very politically incorrect (the original owner, Mike Robertson, once told gays to stay away in a TV interview). In response to an animal welfare-related complaint about the lake running through the grounds, they erected a huge sign in the lake headed "To the interfering busybody who complained to the RSPCA..."

Don't ask me what the problem was, but the notice ends with the wording "the RSPCA have better things to do." Trago are also quite vocal about having to close on Easter Sunday, and every year put up "blame the government" notices.

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