[quote="Markymark" pid=
BBC1 and ITV had caught up, and after that date new UHF stations carried BBC1/2 and ITV
together from the outset
![/quote]
That was not true re Selkirk in the Borders. That main station began colour services on ITV only in March 1972. BBC1 and BBC2 colour didn't start from Selkirk until May 1973. In other words, people were paying a colour TV licence and only getting the commercial channel in colour for over a year! I don't know if there were any other main stastions where ITV led the way.
I seem to remember that depending on the owner at the time either the BBC or ITA dictated who had first access to some sites. Remember that in the 405 line days virtually all sites were single channel with BBC and ITA services coming from different sites. Selkirk being an ITA sire.
I seem to remember that depending on the owner at the time either the BBC or ITA dictated who had first access to some sites. Remember that in the 405 line days virtually all sites were single channel with BBC and ITA services coming from different sites. Selkirk being an ITA sire.
Yes, hard to say, BBC service dates are not as well documented as the IBA ones (which were published in the yearbooks and other EID publications) ITV at the BBC's Rowridge Tx beat BBC 1 by a fortnight, and more importantly before Christmas.
ITV 13 Dec 1969
BBC1 27 Dec 1969
Though the reality was a couple of weeks of 'full test transmission' leading up to the service date which meant a full service, albeit with the possibility of some breaks and glitches.
In the immediate run up to official launch date for colour, Southern TV transmitted 2 or 3 locally produced simple promotions using some of their station personalities. Trevor Baker (the weatherman) was one, I think another was Ian Currie or Brian Nissen (one of the continuity announcers) and one other that I can't remember after all these years. They were each just a couple of minutes long and make light reference to how viewers would see them in colour etc.
(Brian was a really lovely bloke, and was married to Pat Phillips who used to direct Southern's 'Day by Day').
Weren't ATV making quite a lot of colour productions from the mid-60s onwards, through their international arm ITC?
Yep - they were mainly shot on 35mm film and made in colour for the US market, and shown in B&W in the UK until colour outlets were available.
ISTR that ATV may also have had a 525 NTSC/625 PAL switchable operation at one point in at least one of their studios?
They certainly had 525NTSC and 405/BW (possibly later 625PAL?) cameras working side by side at Elstree in the mid 60s.
Yes - I can't remember if they had switchable cameras (as I believe Telegenic did in an OB truck that got huge amounts of US work) or ran in parallel.
I think in the very early days of colour operation at Elstree they used to hire in the Intertel colour OB truck, as you say later on they had their own in house colour facilities - certainly they had switchable cameras. I can certainly confirm they had a Bosch optical standards convertor as I went there and 'stroked it' one day. What a beast. I think it fell into disuse as more sophisticated convertors became available.
Weren't ATV making quite a lot of colour productions from the mid-60s onwards, through their international arm ITC?
Yep - they were mainly shot on 35mm film and made in colour for the US market, and shown in B&W in the UK until colour outlets were available.
ISTR that ATV may also have had a 525 NTSC/625 PAL switchable operation at one point in at least one of their studios?
They certainly had 525NTSC and 405/BW (possibly later 625PAL?) cameras working side by side at Elstree in the mid 60s.
Yes - I can't remember if they had switchable cameras (as I believe Telegenic did in an OB truck that got huge amounts of US work) or ran in parallel.
I think in the very early days of colour operation at Elstree they used to hire in the Intertel colour OB truck, as you say later on they had their own in house colour facilities - certainly they had switchable cameras. I can certainly confirm they had a Bosch optical standards convertor as I went there and 'stroked it' one day. What a beast. I think it fell into disuse as more sophisticated convertors became available.
Yes. ISTR that ATV did more of this than most other ITV companies - and it wasn't just The Muppets (which was shot 625 PAL I believe).
Wasn't The Tom Jones Show an ATV produced show that did pretty well in the US? I've got recollections of seeing something that looked very NTSC - but that doesn't mean it was shot NTSC natively (it could just be that an NTSC conversion from a PAL production survives).
ISTR that the BBC had one 525 switchable black and white studio at TVC - but that it was never used in anger...
Well every station added the huge legend "IN COLOUR" or "COLOUR" to their idents. Pretty sure the CA's made a point of it when appropriate too.
Ok, yes, but it seems strange that there is only one piece of footage like that floating around & nothing else.
If ATV managed to keep something(which is a surprise for ATV admittedly!) like that, I'm surprised nothing similar has popped up, in various anniversary shows?
The only other thing that springs to mind is that trail of the first colour Monday on BBC 1(that exists in black & white!)
I suppose what I'm getting is, bearing in mind most sets would still be in black & white, never mind the regions/transmitters, did they 'overkill' on the colour promotion, or not, so not to alienate the black & white viewers?
(Wonder if Tony Currie is looking in?)
yes, here I am!
There were no specific trails/promos for colour on BBC-1 and STV (can't speak for others) for several good reasons. In the case of BBC-1, much of the UK would have been unable to view colour from 15 Nov 1969 (see the posting above detailing the handful of transmitters that went on air at that time), and it was always an accepted marketing rule not to create a desire for something that couldn't then be delivered. Thus BBC-1 contented itself with the 'colour' strap on the globe and promos. In the case of STV there was undoubtedly a view that since colour sets were very, very expensive, only a small minority would be viewing in colour and to constantly promote that might well alienate the majority of viewers who couldn't afford colour sets. Thus STV restricted itself to a few words from the announcer and brief mentions on Scotland Early and Scotland Now. The ATV promo was purely political - in the south Midlands the station was competing with Southern and London for viewers and emphasising the availability of colour could have swayed some to stay with ATV.
The ATV promo was purely political - in the south Midlands the station was competing with Southern and London for viewers and emphasising the availability of colour could have swayed some to stay with ATV.
Actually, Southern UHF/Colour did not become available in the ATV/Southern 'overlap' area, until
ITV UHF launched from Hannington in Nov 1971, over a year after Oxford UHF launched for ATV.
The area was well served for ATV on VHF/405 from Membury, that in UHF/Colour terms was replaced north of the M4 by Oxford, and south of it by Hannington (Though of course that bit of the M4 didn't open until 73 )
So, as Tony points out, the ATV Oxford promo is a very savvy piece of work
Weren't ATV making quite a lot of colour productions from the mid-60s onwards, through their international arm ITC?
Yep - they were mainly shot on 35mm film and made in colour for the US market, and shown in B&W in the UK until colour outlets were available.
ISTR that ATV may also have had a 525 NTSC/625 PAL switchable operation at one point in at least one of their studios?
They certainly had 525NTSC and 405/BW (possibly later 625PAL?) cameras working side by side at Elstree in the mid 60s.
Yes - I can't remember if they had switchable cameras (as I believe Telegenic did in an OB truck that got huge amounts of US work) or ran in parallel.
I think in the very early days of colour operation at Elstree they used to hire in the Intertel colour OB truck, as you say later on they had their own in house colour facilities - certainly they had switchable cameras. I can certainly confirm they had a Bosch optical standards convertor as I went there and 'stroked it' one day. What a beast. I think it fell into disuse as more sophisticated convertors became available.
Yes. ISTR that ATV did more of this than most other ITV companies - and it wasn't just The Muppets (which was shot 625 PAL I believe).
Wasn't The Tom Jones Show an ATV produced show that did pretty well in the US? I've got recollections of seeing something that looked very NTSC - but that doesn't mean it was shot NTSC natively (it could just be that an NTSC conversion from a PAL production survives).
ISTR that the BBC had one 525 switchable black and white studio at TVC - but that it was never used in anger...
I had a private visit to the making of a Muppet show, and it was certainly being shot on 625 Pal at the time (using a new GVG300 mixer, in 1978/79 that may have been the first install in the UK). Seem to recall the cameras were Philips LDK5's.
I too remember seeing those Tom Jones (and Englebert) shows as a viewer in the early seventies. I was clearly under the impression at the time that they were being shot in 525NTSC and 'we' in the UK we seeing conversions - but I cannot be certain at all on that one - they sure did look 'funny' though.
I had a private visit to the making of a Muppet show, and it was certainly being shot on 625 Pal at the time (using a new GVG300 mixer, in 1978/79 that may have been the first install in the UK). Seem to recall the cameras were Philips LDK5's.
Yes - definitely PAL. Interesting it was a GVG300 - that mixer had a very long life didn't it?
I have a feeling that they may have been LDK 25s rather than 5s (think the 5s were triax and the 25s multicore?)
Very good camera though - work horse of BBC OBs in London (who were very grateful to escape Links, and later Thomsons) Capable of very nice, flattering pictures.
Quote:
I too remember seeing those Tom Jones (and Englebert) shows as a viewer in the early seventies. I was clearly under the impression at the time that they were being shot in 525NTSC and 'we' in the UK we seeing conversions - but I cannot be certain at all on that one - they sure did look 'funny' though.
Yeah - I've got the same recollections. Maybe they were made NTSC and we got conversions?
You may well be right about the LDK5/25 scenario at ATV Elstree.
The GVG300 was definitely the 'bees knees' at the time. The last GVG300 I was personally involved in was ex-St2 at TLS. It had been de-commissioned when the studio was digitised and replaced with a GVG4000. When 'Granada' subsequently moved 'This Morning' down to London from Liverpool, for cost reasons it was decided to re-install this mixer in the then new St8 being built to accommodate the programme.
I was somewhat nervous that the large interconnect cables between the ME/PGM/Video frames might not survive the journey - pushed back Mrac pins were a rare occurrence but not unknown - but it all went ok and the mixer was fired back up with very little trouble and continued to give reliable service. And there it stayed until it was replaced with a GVG4000 - which is still in use in St8 as I write.
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