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What is a clean feed and a dirty feed?

(April 2006)

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CD
cdukjunkie
thegeek posted:
I think this thread's a good example of how the same term can have umpteen different meanings in television!
cdukjunkie posted:
What is a 'legalised' copy/roll?

Since producers don't always pay as much attention as they ought to, distribution tapes are run through a bit of kit known as a legaliser before the transmission copy is made - which just makes sure that the video doesn't exceed the specified voltages, etc. (This is often done as part of a tech review, which will also check for flashing pictures which could be harmful for viewers with photosensitive epilepsy)
I heard a story about a Janet Street-Porter programme on BBC Two (possibly DEF II) which had its colours and brightness whacked right up beyond the legal limits; and fell off the air because of it. I'm sure someone here will be able to fill in the details about that...

cdukjunkie posted:
What is the backup copy? Is it simply a standby tape if a show can't go live with a complilation of best bits?
A backup copy could just be a spare copy of a programme tape - as reliable as videotapes are these days, they still break sometimes. It's slightly different from a standby, though.
Any programme that's live or delivered late will have a standby programme scheduled against it, sometimes more. Live events (eg sport) will have various standbys of various durations, in case the programme finishes early or the OB goes down, or in case it over-runs and later programmes need to be dropped and replaced with something shorter. These could be anything that's considered appropriate for the timeslot (but invariably on the BBC seem to include Animal Park).
Sometimes a standby will be a 'best of' programme - Newsround generally has a Newsround Extra as a standby, and Watchdog has 25 Years of Watchdog. I think I've seen Airport as a standby for Question Time though, so it doesn't always make sense. There's even a standby tape for Two Minutes Silence.

BBC TV Centre posted:
Do they still use tapes to keep stuff on these days? Or are they all considered old hat?
Generally yes - for a start, you're going to have trouble getting more bandwidth than a van full of tapes. They're a fairly safe bet for long term storage, and they're not going to crash or be corrupted just by sitting in a warehouse (unless the roof falls in, or something ridiculous like that).
That said, TV playout is generally done from server, so programmes will be delivered on tape and ingested onto server, and Flextech are moving into a tapeless environment: they'll get a distribution tape, it'll be ingested, and they'll do all their compliance edits, promo-making, subtitling (etc), and playout from server copies, rather than passing round tapes.
It's not entirely tapeless, though - the MPEG files are moved on to data tapes, which are kept in a big automated data archive vault thing for long-term storage.

BBC TV Centre posted:
I hear that it's possible to view these sorts of things on the BBC's TV system in the newsroom at the touch of a button - is this true?
You can usually pick up the output of most of TV Centre's studios from within TVC.

Inspector Sands posted:
A news programme normally record a 'clean' of the studio output and then keep the cut items seperately and normally both will be kept in library. Clips of the programme such as interviews can then be used again, as can the cut items which will have 'split track audio' so the voice-over can be removed
Ah, that's an interesting point too - news VTs will be recorded with interviews and camera sound on one channel, and voiceover on another, then this will be mono-ised before transmission: which, as Mr Sands says, makes things easier for archive use.


Thanks very much for all that - much informative post.
TV
archiveTV
andyrew posted:
cdukjunkie posted:


Question time again...what's an ISO?


ISO - Isolation feed. A recording of a camera direct, so that in an edit you have got a different picture to cut to if the main recording is not suitable.


Or Independent Separate Output

Each studio has a main output and several ISO's

For instance News24 has a main output which is routed to the transmission chain.
A spare output in case the main feed fails.

And four ISO feeds

ISO4 is identical to main but has a BBC WORLD Tower burnt on. This is what world take overnight
ISO3 has a BBC News bug burnt on and the ticker keyed off. This is the feed News Online take.
ISO2 and ISO1 can be routed for sundry reasons.

The BBC World studio has a similar set up.
The ISO2 feed from BBC World is routed to Washington and is used to feed the Washington plasma. The director in London can therefore directly control what goes into the Washington Plasma.

The news Studios also have a clean output which is devoid of any astons or Live Bugs. This is what is recorded when an interview is replayed later.
CD
cdukjunkie
archiveTV posted:
andyrew posted:
cdukjunkie posted:


Question time again...what's an ISO?


ISO - Isolation feed. A recording of a camera direct, so that in an edit you have got a different picture to cut to if the main recording is not suitable.


Or Independent Seperate Output

Each studio has a main output and several ISO's

For instance News24 has a main output which is routed to the transmission chain.
A spare output incase the main feed fails.

And four ISO feeds

ISO4 is identical to main but has a BBC WORLD Tower burnt on. This is what world take overnight
ISO3 has a BBC News bug burnt on and the ticker keyed off. This is the feed News Online take.
ISO2 and ISO1 can be routed for sundry reasons.

The BBC World studio has a similar set up.
The ISO2 feed from BBC World is routed to Washington and is used to feed the Washington plasma. The director in london can therefore directly control what goes into the Washington Plasma.

The news Studios also have a clean output which is devoid of any astons or Live Bugs. This is what is recorded when an interview is replayed later.


Thanks for all this. I'm guessing clean feeds are always handy should they wish to broadcast the same things in the future with bugs and astons removed.
IS
Inspector Sands
peterrocket posted:
I was surprised when I was at a BBC OB in Belfast where the audio the presenter and crowd of assembled people heard was the actual programme audio off BBC ONE itself mixed with the gallery sound, not only was the ident and continuity played through, but the sound was turned down once studio presenter had asked OB presenter a question and turned up again after.


That's Clean Feed/IFB/Mix-Minus. The sound isn't turned down when the OB presenter is speaking, the audio from the OB is subtracted from the programme sound by the mixing desk. This is necessary because the OB presenter doesn't want their voice coming back into their ear and if it's on speakers it won't cause feedback.

You will hear gallery sound too as this audio feed is also used to talk to the OB. It's far easier than setting up a seperate '4-wire' talkback connection, any communication the other way (from OB to studio) is down down the normal 'music' line
IS
Inspector Sands
thegeek posted:
That said, TV playout is generally done from server, so programmes will be delivered on tape and ingested onto server, and Flextech are moving into a tapeless environment: they'll get a distribution tape, it'll be ingested, and they'll do all their compliance edits, promo-making, subtitling (etc), and playout from server copies, rather than passing round tapes.
It's not entirely tapeless, though - the MPEG files are moved on to data tapes, which are kept in a big automated data archive vault thing for long-term storage.


Despite it being touted and promised a lot, there are very few 'tapeless environments' - it's the televisual equivalent of a 'paperless office'.

The area I worked in 6 years ago was supposed to be tapeless, that place has now been closed and superseeded by something brand new that still isn't!

I've only seen one genuinely tapeless TV station and that's Bloomberg in London
PE
peterrocket Founding member
peterrocket posted:
I was surprised when I was at a BBC OB in Belfast where the audio the presenter and crowd of assembled people heard was the actual programme audio off BBC ONE itself mixed with the gallery sound, not only was the ident and continuity played through, but the sound was turned down once studio presenter had asked OB presenter a question and turned up again after.

Inspector Sands posted:

That's Clean Feed/IFB/Mix-Minus. The sound isn't turned down when the OB presenter is speaking, the audio from the OB is subtracted from the programme sound by the mixing desk.


Err yes it was being turned down. There was a guy sat in the corner who was turning it up and down at the points when studio were speaking. If it was a clean feed as you say, then it wouldnt have had the end of BBC Newsline, Promos, ident and all appropriate sound.

It was odd, as when your at these kind of things purely by chance and it's also your daily job for a different channel, you really do want to step in and suggest a workaround when things are just so easily solved!
RW
RWT
Inspector Sands posted:
thegeek posted:
That said, TV playout is generally done from server, so programmes will be delivered on tape and ingested onto server, and Flextech are moving into a tapeless environment: they'll get a distribution tape, it'll be ingested, and they'll do all their compliance edits, promo-making, subtitling (etc), and playout from server copies, rather than passing round tapes.
It's not entirely tapeless, though - the MPEG files are moved on to data tapes, which are kept in a big automated data archive vault thing for long-term storage.


Despite it being touted and promised a lot, there are very few 'tapeless environments' - it's the televisual equivalent of a 'paperless office'.

The area I worked in 6 years ago was supposed to be tapeless, that place has now been closed and superseeded by something brand new that still isn't!

I've only seen one genuinely tapeless TV station and that's Bloomberg in London



BFBS TV is going tapeless
IS
Inspector Sands
RWT posted:

BFBS TV is going tapeless


Yeah, but over what period of time? An exsisting station such as BFBS will have lots of archive and programmes on tape which they're not going to just abandon. It's far easier for a new start-up to be tapeless than something that's been around for many years
RS
Roy Slaven
Re Clean Feed / Dirty Feed
In Transmission terms:
A clean feed is the feed of programmes to other stations in a network clean of any added 'furniture' - vo/ end credits, osns, etc .
A dirty feed is the feeding of the transmission of a stations' output complete with endcredit additions, and junctions - promos, comms, idents etc. ...

14 days later

BB
bbclover88
the pic is from a hiccup just a while ago on BBC TWO, a still of the VT Clock into Snooker Extra.
http://pp.meldrum.co.uk/files/2005/BBCTWO-VT-24-04-06.jpg
NG
noggin Founding member
Inspector Sands posted:
edward posted:

What I think is that where there are VTs in the actual transmission, the channel is playing idents and commercials.

I've got a couple of images from studio broadcasts that aren't transmitted to viewers, these are basically satellite feeds to receiving stations...

ITV's Soapstar Superstar - during live transmission, i.e. they cut into adverts
http://www.rp-networkservices.com/tvforum/uploads/soapstarsuperstar.jpg


That is the 'VT' clock of the sting that opens the next part of the programme.

In that case it is a Matte - a sequence with holes which is super'd onto the picture from the studio camera not full screen.

The gallery will leave that there during the break and then run it 5 seconds before they're due on air. It doesn't have to be there during the break, it's just good practise so they don't forget, also the transmission bods can see that they are ready to go before they cut them to air


Yep - it is likely that when that matte VT was run (probably in sync with a fill unless it is a self-keying roll - either chroma or luma keyed) it would have covered up the wide shot you can see, and then revealed it as the sequence ontinued.

9 days later

TP
Test Pilot
cdukjunkie, methinks your choice of questions betrays your insider knowledge - you wouldn't be asking questions you already know the answers to would you??!!

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