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What is a clean feed and a dirty feed?

(April 2006)

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IS
Inspector Sands
cdukjunkie posted:

Yes, very interesting - I would never have imagined so much from off-air would be kept. So...

After a show has been TX'd - you have a master copy, an off-air copy recording what has actually being broadcast and not just what the gallery has recorded, clean copy, dirty copy, A-roll, B-roll etc (still not absolutely sure what the differences are between all of these - would be great to have someone clarify Wink ) and all the individual VT's which were transmitted - correct? Confused


It depends on the programme and also what the production team/company want recorded.

A studio based programme, for example a chat show, would probably have a couple of master copies (a main and a safety) recorded and would have a tape of inserts - the clips, opening titles etc that are played in during the programme. If it's being pre-recorded they often record a number of 'ISO' feeds - individual camera cut aways for editing purposes. These probably wouldn't be kept long term, but the inserts are sometimes (depending on what they are)

A news programme normally record a 'clean' of the studio output and then keep the cut items seperately and normally both will be kept in library. Clips of the programme such as interviews can then be used again, as can the cut items which will have 'split track audio' so the voice-over can be removed

Not sure about sport, but it won't be as many copies as you mention above - there's little point keeping a full as-broadcast recording with graphics except just to watch to see how it looked on air
IS
Inspector Sands
cdukjunkie posted:
Cool, thanks. How about A-Roll, B-Roll etc? I have a fair idea of what they all mean but a concrete explanation would be much appreciated. Wink


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_roll
Although in my experience of TV, B-roll is more commonly called 'cutaways' or 'noddies'. The term 'B-roll' is used to refer to the behind the scenes footage supplied by film companies to TV companies.

There's also AB-Roll which is a term used in linear video editing
CD
cdukjunkie
Inspector Sands posted:
cdukjunkie posted:

Yes, very interesting - I would never have imagined so much from off-air would be kept. So...

After a show has been TX'd - you have a master copy, an off-air copy recording what has actually being broadcast and not just what the gallery has recorded, clean copy, dirty copy, A-roll, B-roll etc (still not absolutely sure what the differences are between all of these - would be great to have someone clarify Wink ) and all the individual VT's which were transmitted - correct? Confused


It depends on the programme and also what the production team/company want recorded.

A studio based programme, for example a chat show, would probably have a couple of master copies (a main and a safety) recorded and would have a tape of inserts - the clips, opening titles etc that are played in during the programme. If it's being pre-recorded they often record a number of 'ISO' feeds - individual camera cut aways for editing purposes. These probably wouldn't be kept long term, but the inserts are sometimes (depending on what they are)

A news programme normally record a 'clean' of the studio output and then keep the cut items seperately and normally both will be kept in library. Clips of the programme such as interviews can then be used again, as can the cut items which will have 'split track audio' so the voice-over can be removed

Not sure about sport, but it won't be as many copies as you mention above - there's little point keeping a full as-broadcast recording with graphics except just to watch to see how it looked on air


Thanks so much again for that. My, what a font of knowledge this forum produces Wink

Just another few questions if that's ok:

What is the safety master copy? (damn, I must sound really dumb now...)

What is a 'legalised' copy/roll?

What is the backup copy? Is it simply a standby tape if a show can't go live with a complilation of best bits?
CD
cdukjunkie
Inspector Sands posted:
cdukjunkie posted:
Cool, thanks. How about A-Roll, B-Roll etc? I have a fair idea of what they all mean but a concrete explanation would be much appreciated. Wink


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B_roll
Although in my experience of TV, B-roll is more commonly called 'cutaways' or 'noddies'. The term 'B-roll' is used to refer to the behind the scenes footage supplied by film companies to TV companies.

There's also AB-Roll which is a term used in linear video editing


I see! This is all very interesting for me to learn about, so thanks again.
ED
edward
cdukjunkie posted:
harshy posted:
Yep feeds like this are out there, for example with a Scottish Premier League match on 10E, there is a dirty feed with Setanta's scoreboard, commentators and visual effects, and a clean feed, with no scoreboard, commentators or visual effects sound, you just get to see the transitions, it's all very interesting, enough to get myself a motorised dish one day.


Yes, very interesting - I would never have imagined so much from off-air would be kept. So...

After a show has been TX'd - you have a master copy, an off-air copy recording what has actually being broadcast and not just what the gallery has recorded, clean copy, dirty copy, A-roll, B-roll etc (still not absolutely sure what the differences are between all of these - would be great to have someone clarify Wink ) and all the individual VT's which were transmitted - correct? Confused

Any idea of what would be kept from a live broadcast with regards to rehearsals and the like? So basically when everyone at home would be seeing VT's on-screen the gallery would have a seperate tape with everything going on in the studio too.


What I think is that where there are VTs in the actual transmission, the channel is playing idents and commercials.

I've got a couple of images from studio broadcasts that aren't transmitted to viewers, these are basically satellite feeds to receiving stations...

ITV's Soapstar Superstar - during live transmission, i.e. they cut into adverts
http://www.rp-networkservices.com/tvforum/uploads/soapstarsuperstar.jpg

Channel Four's Space Cadets - after transmission
http://www.rp-networkservices.com/tvforum/uploads/spacecade.jpg

Sky Sports Champions League
http://www.rp-networkservices.com/tvforum/uploads/ucl.jpg
http://www.rp-networkservices.com/tvforum/uploads/ucl2.jpg

American NBC's Today Show rehearsal, interestingly (or not), what they tend to do is for the each affiliate NBC station to broadcast at one time this feed as the anchors explain to that affiliate what's coming up on the show. This showed them doing a 5 minute preparation of the headlines and introduction.
http://www.rp-networkservices.com/tvforum/uploads/today.jpg
http://www.rp-networkservices.com/tvforum/uploads/today2.jpg

NBC's Nightly News - preparation for affiliates and CNBC Europe
http://www.rp-networkservices.com/tvforum/uploads/nbc.jpg

MSNBC's Scarborough Country rehearsal
http://www.rp-networkservices.com/tvforum/uploads/msnbc.jpg

BTW I think clean feeds can actually involve graphics. For example the golf now on the BBC, the BBC are using a clean feed as there is no american commentary BUT there are graphics present.
CD
cdukjunkie
edward posted:
cdukjunkie posted:
harshy posted:
Yep feeds like this are out there, for example with a Scottish Premier League match on 10E, there is a dirty feed with Setanta's scoreboard, commentators and visual effects, and a clean feed, with no scoreboard, commentators or visual effects sound, you just get to see the transitions, it's all very interesting, enough to get myself a motorised dish one day.


Yes, very interesting - I would never have imagined so much from off-air would be kept. So...

After a show has been TX'd - you have a master copy, an off-air copy recording what has actually being broadcast and not just what the gallery has recorded, clean copy, dirty copy, A-roll, B-roll etc (still not absolutely sure what the differences are between all of these - would be great to have someone clarify Wink ) and all the individual VT's which were transmitted - correct? Confused

Any idea of what would be kept from a live broadcast with regards to rehearsals and the like? So basically when everyone at home would be seeing VT's on-screen the gallery would have a seperate tape with everything going on in the studio too.


What I think is that where there are VTs in the actual transmission, the channel is playing idents and commercials.

I've got a couple of images from studio broadcasts that aren't transmitted to viewers, these are basically satellite feeds to receiving stations...

BTW I think clean feeds can actually involve graphics. For example the golf now on the BBC, the BBC are using a clean feed as there is no american commentary BUT there are graphics present.


Brilliant stuff! Thank you very much. Where did you find all the pics?
ED
edward
These transmissions are broadcast on satellite, and having friends who work in television broadcasting, you can find out easily what satellite and where.

News channels use APTN and Reuters for clean transmissions for news pieces IIRC.
IS
Inspector Sands
cdukjunkie posted:

What is the safety master copy? (damn, I must sound really dumb now...)


It's just another recording - if you just made one recording of a programme and that VT machine was faulty, or the tape got lost or damaged you'd have a problem.... so you make 2 copies - a main and a safety.

In a studio situation where a VT operator is recording onto several tapes simultaneously the VT machines will be 'ganged' together so that the all start and stop simultaneously.

Quote:

What is a 'legalised' copy/roll?


No idea

Quote:
What is the backup copy? Is it simply a standby tape if a show can't go live with a complilation of best bits?


'Backup copy' could be anything I suppose.

In TV transmission programmes often have 'backing copies' which are duplicate copies of the programme played at the same time so if the programme fails the other can be cut to air. This could be a tape backing up a server copy or vice-versa or less common now, 2 tapes.

'Standby' normally refers to a programme that is kept ready in case the scheduled programme can't go out for any reason
CD
cdukjunkie
edward posted:
These transmissions are broadcast on satellite, and having friends who work in television broadcasting, you can find out easily what satellite and where.


Nice! So basically if a live show was being TX'd and you knew which satellite it was being transmitted on, you could see whatever the gallery are broadcasting off-air to the studio? (wow I do ask a lot of questions don't I - must stop. Embarassed )
IS
Inspector Sands
edward posted:

What I think is that where there are VTs in the actual transmission, the channel is playing idents and commercials.

I've got a couple of images from studio broadcasts that aren't transmitted to viewers, these are basically satellite feeds to receiving stations...

ITV's Soapstar Superstar - during live transmission, i.e. they cut into adverts
http://www.rp-networkservices.com/tvforum/uploads/soapstarsuperstar.jpg


That is the ' VT' clock of the sting that opens the next part of the programme.

In that case it is a Matte - a sequence with holes which is super'd onto the picture from the studio camera not full screen.

The gallery will leave that there during the break and then run it 5 seconds before they're due on air. It doesn't have to be there during the break, it's just good practise so they don't forget, also the transmission bods can see that they are ready to go before they cut them to air
CD
cdukjunkie
Inspector Sands posted:
cdukjunkie posted:

What is the safety master copy? (damn, I must sound really dumb now...)


It's just another recording - if you just made one recording of a programme and that VT machine was faulty, or the tape got lost or damaged you'd have a problem.... so you make 2 copies - a main and a safety.

In a studio situation where a VT operator is recording onto several tapes simultaneously the VT machines will be 'ganged' together so that the all start and stop simultaneously.

Quote:

What is a 'legalised' copy/roll?


No idea

Quote:
What is the backup copy? Is it simply a standby tape if a show can't go live with a complilation of best bits?


'Backup copy' could be anything I suppose.

In TV transmission programmes often have 'backing copies' which are duplicate copies of the programme played at the same time so if the programme fails the other can be cut to air. This could be a tape backing up a server copy or vice-versa or less common now, 2 tapes.

'Standby' normally refers to a programme that is kept ready in case the scheduled programme can't go out for any reason


Thanks again Very Happy Really hope I can test some of this out myself one day in a live gallery - doubtful it will ever happen, but trying my very best to get there all the same!
CD
cdukjunkie
Inspector Sands posted:
edward posted:

What I think is that where there are VTs in the actual transmission, the channel is playing idents and commercials.

I've got a couple of images from studio broadcasts that aren't transmitted to viewers, these are basically satellite feeds to receiving stations...

ITV's Soapstar Superstar - during live transmission, i.e. they cut into adverts
http://www.rp-networkservices.com/tvforum/uploads/soapstarsuperstar.jpg


That is the 'VT' clock of the sting that opens the next part of the programme.

In that case it is a Matte (super's onto the picture from the studio camera not full screen), which looks like it's being played off an AVID graphics machine, so not actually 'VT' as such


Yep I'm just about there with the ol' VT clock but thanks for explaining anyway - I didn't know about the Matte so another good lesson learnt.

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