CiTV & Ministry of Mayhem thread

About the same time their graphics went down the pan, I believe... the decline started around Autumn 2001.

I'm not sure about Autumn 2001, they had strong programming (even though it was stripped across the week, that viewers didn't like. On all day channels, ok, but on a 105 min segment, nope).

Plus I'm sure that Steve Ryde was still there back then, the graphics went dark blue, Leah, Leigh and David joined Tom, Stephen & Dannielle (the biggest line up!), plus they had regular features of the phone in competition, the big competition and regular 3 minute warnings, along with them having chums on every day.

I'm not sure when it's recently started to decline. It may do now, and as I said it may have done last week with no presenters on CiTV, and Dick & Dom doing CBBC One's links!

The ratings on both CBBC and CITV went down the pan as more and more kids got access to Sky. After all why would you sit down and watch a small strand of programmes and watch what they want you to watch when you've access to about a dozen kids channels showing multiple american kids sitcoms, not to mention all those music channels that do those txt strands aimed at teenagers around teatime. The era of coming home from school and sticking with the same terrestrial channel has come to an end, so I can't really see the presentation making a difference.

The top rating programmes on CBBC and CITV only get about half a million viewers thesedays, as an example, here's the kids top 10 for week ending 30th May...

1. 0.50m Newsround (BBC1, Wed 17:25)
2. 0.48m Newsround (BBC1, Thur 17:25)
3. 0.47m Short Change (BBC1, Thur 17:00)
4. 0.46m Newsround (BBC1, Fri 17:25)
5. 0.44m My Parents are Aliens (ITV1, Thur 16:30)
6. 0.42m My Parents are Aliens (ITV1, Fri 16:30)
6. 0.42m Grizzly Tales for Gruesome Kids (ITV1, Fri 16:05)
8. 0.41m My Parents are Aliens (ITV1, Wed 16:30)
8. 0.41m Newsround (BBC1, Tue 17:25)
9. 0.38m My Parents are Aliens (ITV1, Tue 16:30)

*dingdingding* Correct. ITV plc doesn't like this because it turns off advertisers, and it's for this reason that they're beginning the process of "watering down".

This is the process which has been used on several occasions in the last few years whereby ITV plc DELIBERATELY crapifies a service that it plans/hopes to get rid of. Then, when arguing the case for getting rid of it, they can use the excuse "but it's not popular anymore!" OfCom, being the lazy turds that they are, accept these excuses, and consequently reduce ITV plc's Public Service commitments even further.

Recent examples of "watering down":
Carlton taking over Central, and quickly decommisioning its long-standing logo and replacing it with hybrids of the weakly-branded Carlton london idents, in order to make the transition to "Carlton" less noticable
ITV plc (and ITV Network Ltd before it) forcing the regional companies into producing worse and worse regional programmes, to try (successfully) to convince viewers that they were boring and unnecessary
ITV Network Ltd forcing the regional companies to use dual-branded idents in 1999, to increase awareness of the "itv" brand whilst weakening the regional brands

This theory may seem a little paranoid, but it certainly makes sense!

So what's the way forward then?

ITV needs viewers, but they have to battle with the other channels.
They can't get rid of it (as of yet, and if ofcom have any sense, never).

So it comes down to PROGRAMMES & PRESENTATION

It doesn't matter what age group it's aimed at, if a good programme is on, then many will watch it.

PRESENTATION wise, if the presentation was a programme in itself and promoted well, more viewers may come. Turning each day into Event TV where anything can happen!

I'm think SM:tv/MoM, L&K/TSS, Studio Disney here.

Most would say that presentation doesn't really matter on television. Though in principle I would tend to agree with that, it is ironic that some of the crappest presentation has often coincided with the crappest ratings for certain channels. As for CiTV... well, I'm not sure.

Well, if OFCOM/the government have their way and we do see analogue transmissions switched off from 2007-2012, then we might not have a choice for one reason: Specialist channels. Let me explain:

Children's ITV was set up at a time when it was essentially a monopoly in this field. CBBC was its first competitor a couple of years down the line. Soon came The Children's Channel on satellite TV although it was never to have a major impact on the terrestrial services but did grow somewhat in popularity as Sky TV took off.

Fast forward to 1994, we have Nickelodeon, TCC and the Cartoon Network. Fox Kids and Disney then launched in the mid 1990s and TCC shut down. Come Sky Digital, an explosion in kiddie TV - Nickelodeon Replay, Nicktoons TV, Boomerang, Cartoon Network+1, Disney and its variations and later CBBC and Cbeebies. So it's an ITV thing in general, not just CiTV, that viewers are down across the board. Heck, 20yrs ago you'd have about 1-1.5m average per proggie. Now you're lucky to break half a million.

My point is, after we go digital, ITV will try to argue that there is no point in OFCOM keeping the CiTV service on ITV1 (regardless of where it comes from) when the kids can disappear off to channel 600 upwards and take their pick from the offerings there which will probably at some point include a CiTV Channel (or ITV Kids if you will). the Beeb could do likewise as well.

I've said before that ITV will attempt to offload all the PSB commitments, all the news, all the kiddie programmes and everything that they'll argue is better served by either somewhere else they own (ITV News Channel for example) and generally turn into Sky One with a regional news bulletin every once in a while assuming all the sub-regions end up on Astra.

I don't see CiTV surviving in the form its operated for the last 20yrs with the advent of digital telly. It will either have to offshoot itself in the guise of its own separate channel (like CBBC have done) or disappear altogether. The only reason CiTV is still present is because its in the contract, otherwise it would have disappeared years ago.



I tuned into CiTV today to check out the new Butterfingers programme, which wasn't too bad actually from SMG. Didn't think much of the presentation around the programme though, and I see they're quick off the mark to invoke the ECPs.

Good last point Neil, why do they use ECP's? I wouldn't mind if they used them for presenters links to gain extra time, and have a seperate ECP or shrink the ITV-ised ones properly!
The way they just use them to show adverts is annoying, especially as the majority of the trailers that they show are the same throughout the afternoon!

I was watching Puffin's Pla(i)ce as always, and I'm still baffled to why such a great strand like this can go on the air in the Channel TV region only. Apparently Kevin's got some big Puffin's Pla(i)ce news tomorrow afternoon, if he remembers! If only Puffin's Pla(i)ce was going nationwide.

CiTV could manage something like this using the Central News set, as I've said before, a desk, add a image on the back, change the background and add loads of inflatibles, and it's it's own studio!
But it is ITV.

I'd say one of the best ways for CiTV to go is to go independant, as in they become their own service from their own building which is just funded by ITV, and all of their advertisment revenue goes back into the production and programmes.

Either move the whole of CiTV to Birmingham, London or somewhere. At the moment (i believe it's this way) that production takes place in Birmingham whilst management and the childrens commissioners are in London. It may not be, but that's how I think it is.

I like the idea of them joining a channel, I wouldn't like the idea of a merger, as it would mean the end of two services. I like the idea of a CiTV strand where CiTV programmes are shown with CiTV presenters (if they ever have any) perhaps in a breakfast strand, as all channels have their own afternoon strands (as does CiTV!). They could use it to cross promote well, say they join up with nick, they get nick shows, and nick gets adverts/trailers aired during CiTV on ITV1, and promotions e.g. for more... tune into nickelodeon.

It would be a good way to test the audience to see if many viewers appreciate CiTV programming. Then possibly the next step is to launch a channel. But the channel has to be different, offer something others don't. Whether this is through presentation, programmes or something else it could be achieved.

Since the dawn of CiTV, I believe, Central has had the responsibility of producing and maintaining it. Why did the IBA choose them over, say, Thames? And where are the production and management teams since Carlton and ITV plc carried out their asset stripping?

It wasn't the IBA who chose them it was the ITV Association I think. CiTV was made by an independent company for a few years, who relyed on Central's resources.

Slightly wrong. The period 1989-1991 it was contracted out to a third party, Stonewall Productions who used Central's facilities but it came back to Central full stop in 1991 and that's where it stays.



http://freespace.virgin.net/greg.taylor1/watched_it/citv.html - apparently it was nothing to do with the IBA - it was an internal ITV thing that didn't get off the air until the late 1970s and even then it was regional with source material coming from ATV. Children's ITV as we know it today on a fully networked basis didn't start until 1987. See the link.

Yep Stonewall productions who were the only ones to use the generic Childrens ITV ident, very strange. And yes they used Central's resources and had no studio.
Back in the days when I was a lad with Scally!