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Christmas TV 2020

SW
Steve Williams
Asa posted:



So the "And there will be no Top of the Pops" line was quietly removed from the BBC News article at some point this morning. Wonder if they were waiting on news of the post-lockdown arrangements before making a decision, hence it not being in the press release.


Yes, rumours of this programme's demise seemingly greatly exaggerated. Presumably somebody at BBC News noticed it wasn't in the press pack and put two and two together.

As Brekkie says, it's hard to see what audience there is for it these days. Most of the younger people who'd be most interested in the music wouldn't be interested in watching the show, and most older people with nostalgia for the show wouldn't have much interest in the music. Suprised the Christmas specials lasted this long to be honest. You can't keep something going on nostalgia alone when nobody's actually interested in one of the products itself, it's a lot like how attempts to bring the Woolworths format back have failed- a lot of affection for it nostalgically, but nobody's interested in it in practice.


Well, I would probably agree with you in terms of it being a regular weekly show, but I don't see the harm in Top of the Pops turning up once a year. The young audience don't care about the show's history, if it's an hour of artists they know and like, they'll watch it, and to my mind, as an old man, it probably more effectively reflects modern music these days than it did at times in the past (like how in the late 70s it was famously late to the party in terms of punk, and how in 1990 it's now struggling to cope with dance music).

To have one hour of pop music in a fairly prime slot on BBC1 in a year doesn't seem too much to ask. It pretty much always wins its slot, creates footage that can be frequently recycled on clip shows and is presumably still an important tool for the record industry as bands still appear on it. And with no need to justify it on a weekly basis, I think its future is probably more secure now than it was during the nineties and noughties.

At this point a nuclear apocalypse could hit us all and I’d put good money on there still being MBB, CTM and Doctor Who being in the Christmas line-up.
The phrases ‘rinse and repeat’ and ‘diminishing returns’ come to mind.


Clive James, 1977...
"Morecambe and Wise's Christmas special stuck to their by-now-classic format, including a production number sung and danced by a host of the Beeb's familiar faces. To the strain of 'Nothing Like A Dame', the likes of Barry Norman were allowed to fulfil their fantasies by dancing in sailor suits. This made me very envious of the likes of Barry Norman. Penelope Keith was the guest. Eddie Braben's script invited her to mistake Ernie for Kermit the Frog. Angie Rippon danced through. Every component of the show was triple-tested. The sense of adventure was consequently lacking. Eric was twice as funny busking with Dickie Davies on World of Sport on Christmas Eve."

Sounds like Clive was suggesting the schedules were a bit predictable during the apparent greatest Christmas in the history of television. Almost as if every generation looks back on the previous one as the golden age.

Christmas on BBC1 involves the biggest stars in the biggest shows, which is what Mrs Brown, Call The Midwife and Doctor Who are. The most popular shows on telly this week are Strictly, Bake-Off and I'm A Celebrity, all over a decade old. The audience clearly aren't bored of them now, why should they be on Christmas Day? If you look on Twitter when 'stEnders, Casualty or Holby aren't on for some reason, you don't see people rejoicing they're not there. You see people complaining they're not, because they want to see them all the time. People want to see shows and stars they know.

There is an argument that all these big shows are quite old, and not much else seems to be coming through. But if they're still hugely popular, which they are, why shouldn't they be there? I've said this before, but I used to ask for The Beano Book every Christmas, because I liked getting The Beano Book for Christmas. It wasn't the same book every year.

Say what you like about Gavin and Stacey, but their colossal ratings last Christmas were deserved in my eyes for being the first genuine reason to actually watch something on Christmas Day for years, if you’re not a fan of the regular lineup - last time before that I can remember something out of the norm was the equally huge Wallace and Gromit special in 2008.


But Gavin and Stacey was a revival of a ten-year old series, so that's hardly any great innovation, is it? It's hardly "the regular line-up" when they keep adding new shows to it. Doctor Who hasn't been on Christmas Day since 2017, so they are clearly not averse to ringing the changes.

And it's hard to argue that the audiences are bored of the same shows and looking for excitement on Christmas Day when the audience who used to watch BBC1 seem to be going to Dad's Army on BBC2, Home Alone on C4, Bond films on ITV2 or things like Elf on Netflix. People like to watch the familar on Christmas Day.
BR
Brekkie Wales Wales Today
Asa posted:



So the "And there will be no Top of the Pops" line was quietly removed from the BBC News article at some point this morning. Wonder if they were waiting on news of the post-lockdown arrangements before making a decision, hence it not being in the press release.


Yes, rumours of this programme's demise seemingly greatly exaggerated. Presumably somebody at BBC News noticed it wasn't in the press pack and put two and two together.

As Brekkie says, it's hard to see what audience there is for it these days. Most of the younger people who'd be most interested in the music wouldn't be interested in watching the show, and most older people with nostalgia for the show wouldn't have much interest in the music. Suprised the Christmas specials lasted this long to be honest. You can't keep something going on nostalgia alone when nobody's actually interested in one of the products itself, it's a lot like how attempts to bring the Woolworths format back have failed- a lot of affection for it nostalgically, but nobody's interested in it in practice.


Well, I would probably agree with you in terms of it being a regular weekly show, but I don't see the harm in Top of the Pops turning up once a year. The young audience don't care about the show's history, if it's an hour of artists they know and like, they'll watch it, and to my mind, as an old man, it probably more effectively reflects modern music these days than it did at times in the past (like how in the late 70s it was famously late to the party in terms of punk, and how in 1990 it's now struggling to cope with dance music).

To have one hour of pop music in a fairly prime slot on BBC1 in a year doesn't seem too much to ask. It pretty much always wins its slot, creates footage that can be frequently recycled on clip shows and is presumably still an important tool for the record industry as bands still appear on it. And with no need to justify it on a weekly basis, I think its future is probably more secure now than it was during the nineties and noughties.

No harm but also no point - it's being made for the sake of being made (though isn't all television). Just as they don't revive the Grandstand brand every 4 years for the Olympics there isn't much logic here either with TOTP only having two episodes over Christmas. Now axing them is one option, but perhaps there could be an opportunity to actually rebuild the brand with new content and have the more familar occassional music specials presented under a "TOTP Presents" brand.

Anyway, the more serious consequence of COVID is surely it's going to be a Buble free Christmas.
Be nicer and more tolerant to each other. Them's the rules.
paul_hadley and DE88 gave kudos
BC
Blake Connolly Founding member London London
There is an argument that all these big shows are quite old, and not much else seems to be coming through. But if they're still hugely popular, which they are, why shouldn't they be there? I've said this before, but I used to ask for The Beano Book every Christmas, because I liked getting The Beano Book for Christmas. It wasn't the same book every year.


Indeed, plus there is some new stuff coming through - for example Ghosts has been the best pre-watershed sitcom in years and is getting a Christmas special, which is very pleasing. Lots of other new and one-off stuff in there as well, though like you say, lots of people will be looking forward to the familiar old favourites. I'm sure I'll be watching the Father Ted Christmas special again, like every year.
BR
Brekkie Wales Wales Today
Yes, happy to see Ghosts and The Goes Wrong Shows getting Christmas specials. King Gary is as well, though I don't think I watched more than the pilot (which may have been a Christmas special IIRC).

I don't think anyone argues against the BBC's regular big hitters getting Christmas specials - it's whether having them all in virtually the same Christmas Day slots year after year serves the audience the best. Just cycling them in and out of the day slightly not only keeps it fresher but also helps prop up other days too, and with both Mrs Browns Boys and Call the Midwife there are surely only so many versions of the same thing you can do. I think though at least Call the Midwife doesn't suffer the Heartbeat problem and hasn't had about 10 Christmas's in three years.

Presuming they keep the Strictly countdown show relatively off peak I think if Doctor Who is back in the schedules this years Christmas Night line up will be different enough from last year, yet still quite familar. Talking of Bake Off I see they've commissioned two celebrity episodes of the Sewing Bee, so be interesting to see where they place them and how well they do.
Be nicer and more tolerant to each other. Them's the rules.
JO
Jonwo
Yes, happy to see Ghosts and The Goes Wrong Shows getting Christmas specials. King Gary is as well, though I don't think I watched more than the pilot (which may have been a Christmas special IIRC).

I don't think anyone argues against the BBC's regular big hitters getting Christmas specials - it's whether having them all in virtually the same Christmas Day slots year after year serves the audience the best. Just cycling them in and out of the day slightly not only keeps it fresher but also helps prop up other days too, and with both Mrs Browns Boys and Call the Midwife there are surely only so many versions of the same thing you can do. I think though at least Call the Midwife doesn't suffer the Heartbeat problem and hasn't had about 10 Christmas's in three years.

Presuming they keep the Strictly countdown show relatively off peak I think if Doctor Who is back in the schedules this years Christmas Night line up will be different enough from last year, yet still quite familar. Talking of Bake Off I see they've commissioned two celebrity episodes of the Sewing Bee, so be interesting to see where they place them and how well they do.


Sewing Bee is a Christmas and New Year's special so I would guess Wednesday 23rd and 30th December.

Doctor Who is a bit of a toss up as I wouldn't be surprised if they put Michael McIntyre's The Wheel on Christmas Day as they seem very confident in it.
TV
iloveTV1 London London
Yes, happy to see Ghosts and The Goes Wrong Shows getting Christmas specials. King Gary is as well, though I don't think I watched more than the pilot (which may have been a Christmas special IIRC).


The king Gary pilot aired at Christmas, but was set in the summer and was about a barbecue.
Joined on 29th December 2019.
Brekkie and DeMarkay gave kudos
BG
Big-G Central (East) East Midlands Today
At one time TOTP was a really important programme for the BBC in their early afternoon Christmas schedules. Unlike nowadays when you're only a click away from seeing your favourite group or artist on a screen. Back in the eighties, unless you brought a video of them playing live in concert, or a compilation of their music videos, the only chance you got of seeing your favourite groups on telly, after their record had fallen out of the charts, was on the TOTP Christmas edition.

In the late seventies me and our kid used to wait to see which groups was on the Christmas TOTP, but more importantly see which groups had missed out. Then spend, much to our parents annoyance, the entire queens speech moaning about why our favourite groups had not appeared

G
GL
Gluben Anglia (East) Look East
Asa posted:



So the "And there will be no Top of the Pops" line was quietly removed from the BBC News article at some point this morning. Wonder if they were waiting on news of the post-lockdown arrangements before making a decision, hence it not being in the press release.


Yes, rumours of this programme's demise seemingly greatly exaggerated. Presumably somebody at BBC News noticed it wasn't in the press pack and put two and two together.

As Brekkie says, it's hard to see what audience there is for it these days. Most of the younger people who'd be most interested in the music wouldn't be interested in watching the show, and most older people with nostalgia for the show wouldn't have much interest in the music. Suprised the Christmas specials lasted this long to be honest. You can't keep something going on nostalgia alone when nobody's actually interested in one of the products itself, it's a lot like how attempts to bring the Woolworths format back have failed- a lot of affection for it nostalgically, but nobody's interested in it in practice.


Well, I would probably agree with you in terms of it being a regular weekly show, but I don't see the harm in Top of the Pops turning up once a year. The young audience don't care about the show's history, if it's an hour of artists they know and like, they'll watch it, and to my mind, as an old man, it probably more effectively reflects modern music these days than it did at times in the past (like how in the late 70s it was famously late to the party in terms of punk, and how in 1990 it's now struggling to cope with dance music).

To have one hour of pop music in a fairly prime slot on BBC1 in a year doesn't seem too much to ask. It pretty much always wins its slot, creates footage that can be frequently recycled on clip shows and is presumably still an important tool for the record industry as bands still appear on it. And with no need to justify it on a weekly basis, I think its future is probably more secure now than it was during the nineties and noughties.

At this point a nuclear apocalypse could hit us all and I’d put good money on there still being MBB, CTM and Doctor Who being in the Christmas line-up.
The phrases ‘rinse and repeat’ and ‘diminishing returns’ come to mind.


Clive James, 1977...
"Morecambe and Wise's Christmas special stuck to their by-now-classic format, including a production number sung and danced by a host of the Beeb's familiar faces. To the strain of 'Nothing Like A Dame', the likes of Barry Norman were allowed to fulfil their fantasies by dancing in sailor suits. This made me very envious of the likes of Barry Norman. Penelope Keith was the guest. Eddie Braben's script invited her to mistake Ernie for Kermit the Frog. Angie Rippon danced through. Every component of the show was triple-tested. The sense of adventure was consequently lacking. Eric was twice as funny busking with Dickie Davies on World of Sport on Christmas Eve."

Sounds like Clive was suggesting the schedules were a bit predictable during the apparent greatest Christmas in the history of television. Almost as if every generation looks back on the previous one as the golden age.

Christmas on BBC1 involves the biggest stars in the biggest shows, which is what Mrs Brown, Call The Midwife and Doctor Who are. The most popular shows on telly this week are Strictly, Bake-Off and I'm A Celebrity, all over a decade old. The audience clearly aren't bored of them now, why should they be on Christmas Day? If you look on Twitter when 'stEnders, Casualty or Holby aren't on for some reason, you don't see people rejoicing they're not there. You see people complaining they're not, because they want to see them all the time. People want to see shows and stars they know.

There is an argument that all these big shows are quite old, and not much else seems to be coming through. But if they're still hugely popular, which they are, why shouldn't they be there? I've said this before, but I used to ask for The Beano Book every Christmas, because I liked getting The Beano Book for Christmas. It wasn't the same book every year.

Say what you like about Gavin and Stacey, but their colossal ratings last Christmas were deserved in my eyes for being the first genuine reason to actually watch something on Christmas Day for years, if you’re not a fan of the regular lineup - last time before that I can remember something out of the norm was the equally huge Wallace and Gromit special in 2008.


But Gavin and Stacey was a revival of a ten-year old series, so that's hardly any great innovation, is it? It's hardly "the regular line-up" when they keep adding new shows to it. Doctor Who hasn't been on Christmas Day since 2017, so they are clearly not averse to ringing the changes.

And it's hard to argue that the audiences are bored of the same shows and looking for excitement on Christmas Day when the audience who used to watch BBC1 seem to be going to Dad's Army on BBC2, Home Alone on C4, Bond films on ITV2 or things like Elf on Netflix. People like to watch the familiar on Christmas Day.


I get your point, but I do contest that Christmas specials are hardly "special" when there hasn't even been a full series for many years, e.g. Mrs Brown's Boys. I just wish I could understand why they are deemed to be popular when I think it's actually the fact that they're on Christmas Day and nothing else. If it was something else which was marginally less popular but more original, I wonder if it would get better ratings.

I'd argue that the audience are bored of them to an extent. Just because it's on Christmas Day, doesn't mean we necessarily want it to be. Ratings are often declining year on year and not just because of DVDs and catch-up TV and so on. Sometimes, it's more like we simply don't want a show to be put out of its misery even when it's well past its prime. Top of the Pops is a good example. It shouldn't be on just because of the whole "Christmas just wouldn't be Christmas without..." argument. I cannot stand that.

And I certainly don't look back the previous Christmas being the best one. That was probably around 1999/2000 for me.
Meridian AM and Brekkie gave kudos
JK
JKDerry UTV Newsline
Well this is the last Christmas for Mrs Brown's Boys - so at least there is some light at the end of the tunnel as that show has now been milked to death for almost a decade, it needs to end. It has become appallingly bad and that is saying something from where it started in 2011.

Yes, it has been almost a decade since Mrs Brown and her revolting family have been unleashed on a British population. If the BBC decided to end it, I sincerely doubt RTE in Ireland would continue with it, producing it in Dublin.
LL
London Lite Founding member London London
Well this is the last Christmas for Mrs Brown's Boys - so at least there is some light at the end of the tunnel as that show has now been milked to death for almost a decade, it needs to end. It has become appallingly bad and that is saying something from where it started in 2011.

Yes, it has been almost a decade since Mrs Brown and her revolting family have been unleashed on a British population. If the BBC decided to end it, I sincerely doubt RTE in Ireland would continue with it, producing it in Dublin.


Translated as I don't like Mrs Brown's Boys.

It's never been a sophisticated sitcom, but it's allowed the BBC to be able to target an audience who have been underserved by comedy which tends to be more intelligent where as this is more laugh out loud with crude humour.
JK
JKDerry UTV Newsline
Well this is the last Christmas for Mrs Brown's Boys - so at least there is some light at the end of the tunnel as that show has now been milked to death for almost a decade, it needs to end. It has become appallingly bad and that is saying something from where it started in 2011.

Yes, it has been almost a decade since Mrs Brown and her revolting family have been unleashed on a British population. If the BBC decided to end it, I sincerely doubt RTE in Ireland would continue with it, producing it in Dublin.


Translated as I don't like Mrs Brown's Boys.

It's never been a sophisticated sitcom, but it's allowed the BBC to be able to target an audience who have been underserved by comedy which tends to be more intelligent where as this is more laugh out loud with crude humour.

I do enjoy it when I utter an opinion and you and a few others decide to come in and have a pop at me. Once again, this is my opinion, which is what TV Forum is all about, if you do not like it, well okay, but no need to have a pop at everything I say.
JO
Jonwo
Well this is the last Christmas for Mrs Brown's Boys - so at least there is some light at the end of the tunnel as that show has now been milked to death for almost a decade, it needs to end. It has become appallingly bad and that is saying something from where it started in 2011.

Yes, it has been almost a decade since Mrs Brown and her revolting family have been unleashed on a British population. If the BBC decided to end it, I sincerely doubt RTE in Ireland would continue with it, producing it in Dublin.


Translated as I don't like Mrs Brown's Boys.

It's never been a sophisticated sitcom, but it's allowed the BBC to be able to target an audience who have been underserved by comedy which tends to be more intelligent where as this is more laugh out loud with crude humour.

I do enjoy it when I utter an opinion and you and a few others decide to come in and have a pop at me. Once again, this is my opinion, which is what TV Forum is all about, if you do not like it, well okay, but no need to have a pop at everything I say.

Considering that a few weeks ago, you were finger pointing at Katya from Strictly for testing positive for Covid, it's a bit pot calling the kettle black to complain that people are having a go at you.

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