Channel Breakdowns: Faults during Programmes etc.

Doesn't quite make sense to me.

You say that Ceefax is preferable to black, and then say it won't last much longer; which suggests dropping Ceefax would just lead to the black screen as the replacement, which seems a pointless move; Ceefax being the preferable of the two options (the other being black) is, then, the very reason it has lasted?

If that's not what you meant, then when it soon disappears as you have said, what do you suggest replaces it?

I'd have thought programmes could be used, naturally, but a) you didn't mention this an option preferable to Ceefax, so if it can't be done, I'd be interested to know why, and b) if it is indeed possible to use programmes as filler in place of Ceefax, why haven't they done so? Surely they've had the capability to do so for years - what's stopped them?

Going back to a few days ago, on North West Tonight, they showed an item of news, followed by Gordon Burns saying "..a technical fault preventing us from showing you that item higher up in that programme, which is what we intended ."

Does anyone remember what happened, or what Gordon means by that's what they intended? I have a clip of that and I'll upload it asap if necessary.

they intended to have one running order, but due to the fault had to use another one.

If you could upload? That'd be uber I'm in the NW region but missed it

True, I mean it's not like younger kids are blocked from watching CBBC, If the caption went into "technical difficulty" wording, then they could be slightly confused, that or they just copied and paste the caption

I've said all this before...

Pages from Ceefax costs (virtually) nothing to transmit. I'd suggest that the only reason for it continuing is laziness. No one's bothered thinking up a replacement because they haven't had to.

When analogue transmissions cease there will be no Ceefax. It will therefore have to be replaced with something. Cost will dictate what that something is.

Probably a "BBC Two returns at" slide like on BBC Three and BBC Four before 7:00am. Of course they'll have to make a few, saying 1:00, 2:00, 6:00 and 7:00.

Well, apologies if you did have explained before marksi, only I didn't read it the first time, so as such I didn't know...



Sounds about right to me, to have that sort of caption when the service is digital, if only because it would bring it in line with the other, currently digital-only, channels and keep things consistent across the board. Not forgetting if BBC1 in Scotland still has a short period of downtime post-midnight every so often come switchover, a similar sort of slide would be needed there also. To me, it does seem like quite a straightforward way of doing it.

It's clear from an operational point of view why Ceefax has lasted; BBCi does not make provision for an always-there, automatically rolling sequence which can be put up on the screen and left there for as long as required.

Whether BBCi has the ability to do this, I just don't know. But it's reasonable to hypothesise that if BBCi can do a newsreel, it would have superceded PFC by now.

I can accept you don't expect anyone to watch Ceefax. I'll even hazard a guess thinking was the same in the 1990s when just 15 minutes was provided each morning. Even so, different music was provided each morning from a rotation of tapes/minidiscs.

It's obvious from current practice the server CAN be programmed to play different sequences on set days/times - the weekday playlists appear randomly chosen while at weekends a fixed sequence is heard in any pre-Learning Zone slots. So why is it so hard to tell the server to "play that one if it's this date" etc?

Good point about programmes Paul. Maybe they think (as I do) there's little point in BBC2 starting so early, and the extra hour would almost certainly be occupied by repeats. Mark will argue that television programmes should show television programmes, with even repeats better than dead air. Yet one rumour I've heard suggests Ceefax once got higher viewing figures than The Hoobs on C4!

I appreciate that the idea with Ceefax is purely a filler but surely some effort should go into it with a bit of variety of music and ident introducing it? It can't be that hard with modern technology surely? Instead we end up with the same music after a pool of the same idents (Invisible Walls especially on network getting two/three playouts each week on the weekday mornings). It'd be nice to have a different ident and maybe a longer (even live) anno on network. Then again I doubt many announcers fancy coming in for one junction at 06.00 into a filler programme. What time do network announcers usually begin live?

Obviously on a breakdown caption I expect the same music, but then again I thought it would be something independent to that already played out on Ceefax.

I'm sure something akin to the BBC World "Dynamic Junction" (breakfiller) could be provided if they wanted to.

Not worth a new thread I don't think but I carried on watching Sky Onc after The Simpsons on Sunday to see Cirque de Celebrite breakdown during the titles. After a bit of black, "Sky One Temporary Fault" appeared and shock-horror a live anno! He apologised and within a few secs the show was back. Same thing again a couple of mins later and so the anno popped back up with "Well your shed may have taken a battering last night but it seems our satellite dishes next to the Big Top are as well!". Further breakdown later on, missing one of Grace's performances but nice to see the anno on standby - perfect for incidents like high winds!

I guess they're only live when a show is live? Like Cirque de Celebrite or The Race.