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Channel 4 pre-1993 regional opt outs

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MA
Markymark
robertclark125 posted:
When Engineering Announcements moved from ITV to Channel 4 in 1983, who would've broadcast it? One of the ITV regions, such as TVS, as Winchester was in their area, or Channel 4 themselves at Charlotte Street?


It was played out from Crawley Court, they had a fully equipped studio, gallery, and VT facilites. The SHF link went from the roof of the building, to the Crabwood Farm Tx site (owned by British Gas, and used for FM and DAB to this day) and from there another hop to BT Thornhill station at Hedge End, then a local end to Southampton NSC, and into the BT national distribution system from there
IS
Isonstine Founding member
Sorry, I have no valuable information to add but can I just say this is the most enjoyable TVF thread for a long time. This is the kind of obsession to detail that we're here for (surely!?), not what time Piers Morgan finished his rant on Good Morning Britain.
JA
james-2001
DVB Cornwall posted:
I believe that the network was switched to Crawley Court directly for the intro and broadcast.


Was it done that way for the brief period it was shown during the 10 minute gap after TV-am closedown too? Would seem a bit awkward for them to switch from Camden to Crawley Court then to the local ITV station in the period of 10 minutes. Or was it routed via Camden?
SP
Steve in Pudsey
Markymark posted:
Steve in Pudsey posted:
Yes that's right, cameras and slide scanners (glorified cameras) could cope with the syncs being nudged so that frames were not exactly 625 lines, some were more or less to bring the station syncs in line with the incoming feed. So the pulse chains linked to the ITV side of things would be constantly changing for each programme, before synchronisers came along.

The C4 operation would need to synchronise to the incoming C4 feed.


Yes, the incoming feed from C4 would have been a nice clean continuous signal, C4 themselves used frame-syncs for incoming feeds, so nothing would (should) have been 'banging around'. Quite unlike, as you point out the network feed coming in for ITV. It would have been like the Net 1 feed for the BBC regions, so just slave lock to that ?


Agreed - the point I was making was that the kit running the C4 opts would all need to be slave locked to that feed, so there would presumably be a need for an additional local SPG and internal distribution so that individual VTRs could be switched to those syncs rather than the ITV ones or the local chain used for editing etc.
DV
DVB Cornwall
james-2001 posted:
DVB Cornwall posted:
I believe that the network was switched to Crawley Court directly for the intro and broadcast.


Was it done that way for the brief period it was shown during the 10 minute gap after TV-am closedown too? Would seem a bit awkward for them to switch from Camden to Crawley Court then to the local ITV station in the period of 10 minutes. Or was it routed via Camden?


As far as I can remember the broadcast ALWAYS originated from the IBA whether from Brompton Road originally or Crawley Court at the end.
SP
Steve in Pudsey
james-2001 posted:
DVB Cornwall posted:
I believe that the network was switched to Crawley Court directly for the intro and broadcast.


Was it done that way for the brief period it was shown during the 10 minute gap after TV-am closedown too? Would seem a bit awkward for them to switch from Camden to Crawley Court then to the local ITV station in the period of 10 minutes. Or was it routed via Camden?

In that period it was simulcast on C4, so I have a theory that the IBA Regional Operations Centres (ROCs) remotely switched the ITV transmitters to the C4 feed at 0915 (while BT reconfigured the ITV feeds) then back to the ITV feed at 0925. Potentially with rebroadcast links in use for the remaining VHF transmitters that were not co-sited.
NJ
Neil Jones Founding member
Isonstine posted:
Sorry, I have no valuable information to add but can I just say this is the most enjoyable TVF thread for a long time. This is the kind of obsession to detail that we're here for (surely!?), not what time Piers Morgan finished his rant on Good Morning Britain.


Its amazing to think and read about how the behind the scenes logistics worked for both ITV and Channel 4. To a viewer it seems so simple - play a programme, play some adverts and trailers and collect the money. They don't need to know Channel 4's adverts are actually coming from your ITV company.

Having read all the topics about the behind the scenes stuff, it was obviously quite detailed and planned and not something somebody knocked up in five minutes on the back of a fag packet in the pub. Presumably a lot of it was originally planned and implemented possibly in the 1950s and early 1960s as the various regions came on air or was some it it effectively tacked on later? Although having said that Sunday Night at the London Palladium was networked live (I believe) so there must have been some form of networking between the companies in the 1950s?
Night Thoughts and Si-Co gave kudos
MA
Markymark
Steve in Pudsey posted:
james-2001 posted:
DVB Cornwall posted:
I believe that the network was switched to Crawley Court directly for the intro and broadcast.


Was it done that way for the brief period it was shown during the 10 minute gap after TV-am closedown too? Would seem a bit awkward for them to switch from Camden to Crawley Court then to the local ITV station in the period of 10 minutes. Or was it routed via Camden?

In that period it was simulcast on C4, so I have a theory that the IBA Regional Operations Centres (ROCs) remotely switched the ITV transmitters to the C4 feed at 0915 (while BT reconfigured the ITV feeds) then back to the ITV feed at 0925. Potentially with rebroadcast links in use for the remaining VHF transmitters that were not co-sited.


It came through C4 pres, and pre TV-am via each ITV company. The sound was lost on one occasion during Southern TV’s era, and ( eventually) Southern CA Christopher Robbie did a voiceover apology. During the TV-am era I’m not sure where it was routed via. It didn’t last long on ITV, it was C4 only once the 9:15 to 9:25 gap was filled.

The IBA recorded the programme Monday afternoons, and it was played out from CC on Tuesday mornings. They may well have sent it down the line to C4 on Monday night when it ended up shunted to 05:45 from 1989 ?
CL
Closedown
I remember an occasion in the late 80s when Engineering Announcements went out with some sort of music soundtrack in the background, put down the following week to a switching fault. Also worth asking - what were the arrangements for Eng. Ann. when it came from Brompton road before Engineering moved to Winchester? I believe the programme in its early days went out live?
RI
Richard
Si-Co posted:
Markymark posted:
Inspector Sands posted:
Why would they need all that? All it would have needed is a VT machine to play the PPB. Any announcement and slide would just be on the tape too... all pre-built and ready to go


Indeed. What also springs to mind are schools progs, where the Scottish companies and/or UTV may well have opted out. Again nothing more than a VTR required


Although with schools programmes, more surrounding presentation would have to be transmitted. I wonder if a copy of the roto and clock (with the correct “coming next” programme title burnt on) was included on the VT and this was backtimed appropriately?

I’ve never seen an example of Scotland or Northern Ireland opting out of ITV Schools on 4. I’m told this might actually have been done from a different site than one of the regional companies, though it would make sense for UTV or STV to just opt out of their Channel 4 feed - but the C4 STV feed would then need to be routed to Grampian and Border (and this wasn’t a normal procedure on C4) which may be why it was done differently.

The only talk I’ve heard of how this looked on air was a “glitch” a few seconds after the preceding roto had faded in - so evidently that was the opt point. When the nations were due to opt, C4 did delay fading up the “next programme follows shortly” text, presumably to give them a chance to opt out without broadcasting the incorrect text. I would like to hear from anyone in Scotland or Northern Ireland who witnessed this, or may even know more about it.

I remember hearing that in the early days of C4, an additional programme occasionally appeared on Scotland transmitters after closedown (political coverage relevant only to Scotland, I think). They weren’t allowed to opt out of any C4 programming so this was the only way to show this additional programme (except perhaps in the afternoon before startup).


I remember a schools programme on CH4 in Northern Ireland. The programme was a bit too long, so the roto didn't appear and the 60 seconds part was edited to take less than 60 seconds (it was actually edited, not just faded in late). Local schools opts continued into early 1993, but presumably this was achieved in a different way by this time?
SC
Si-Co
Markymark posted:
Steve in Pudsey posted:
james-2001 posted:

Was it done that way for the brief period it was shown during the 10 minute gap after TV-am closedown too? Would seem a bit awkward for them to switch from Camden to Crawley Court then to the local ITV station in the period of 10 minutes. Or was it routed via Camden?

In that period it was simulcast on C4, so I have a theory that the IBA Regional Operations Centres (ROCs) remotely switched the ITV transmitters to the C4 feed at 0915 (while BT reconfigured the ITV feeds) then back to the ITV feed at 0925. Potentially with rebroadcast links in use for the remaining VHF transmitters that were not co-sited.


It came through C4 pres, and pre TV-am via each ITV company. The sound was lost on one occasion during Southern TV’s era, and ( eventually) Southern CA Christopher Robbie did a voiceover apology. During the TV-am era I’m not sure where it was routed via. It didn’t last long on ITV, it was C4 only once the 9:15 to 9:25 gap was filled.

The IBA recorded the programme Monday afternoons, and it was played out from CC on Tuesday mornings. They may well have sent it down the line to C4 on Monday night when it ended up shunted to 05:45 from 1989 ?


I’ve mentioned this before, but it seems the ITV companies were under no obligation to screen Engineering Announcements. Tyne Tees cut away from it early on one occasion around Easter 1982, and started their opening sequence at 9.18, cutting John Lovell off mid sentence. The following week they showed the whole programme, and then crashed into their opening routine (Three Rivers Fantasy and the IBA slide) partway through the tune, which was very odd. Evidently they had a tightly packed schedule those mornings (it being during the Easter break in schools programmes), perhaps even taking their first proper programme from another company who didn’t have a Bible reading or news bulletin to squeeze in before it.

I wonder why Engineering Announcements was never billed in the TV Times or newspapers?
JA
james-2001
Si-Co posted:

I wonder why Engineering Announcements was never billed in the TV Times or newspapers?


Because it wasn't aimed at regular viewers, only the trade?

Always feel disapointed I'm not old enough to have ever watched them myself (as the final one went out shortly after my 4th birthday), it's the sort of thing I'd have got up to see!

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