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Channel 4 pre-1993 regional opt outs

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LL
London Lite Founding member
james-2001 posted:
Si-Co posted:

I wonder why Engineering Announcements was never billed in the TV Times or newspapers?


Because it wasn't aimed at regular viewers, only the trade?

Always feel disapointed I'm not old enough to have ever watched them myself (as the final one went out shortly after my 4th birthday), it's the sort of thing I'd have got up to see!


I used to get up to watch them on Channel 4. It's as much a memory of my childhood as watching Wacaday as a child. The first signs of the anorak I was to become!
Roger Darthwell and Si-Co gave kudos
SP
Steve in Pudsey
Markymark posted:

It came through C4 pres, and pre TV-am via each ITV company. The sound was lost on one occasion during Southern TV’s era, and ( eventually) Southern CA Christopher Robbie did a voiceover apology.


Was it a generic apology or did it reference the programme? Tony Currie has said previously that Black Hill had some generic apologies on cart that he recorded, so that could be a red herring? I'm also aware that EngAnn went out during the ITV strikes, although I guess they could have made special arrangements.
MA
Markymark
Steve in Pudsey posted:
Markymark posted:

It came through C4 pres, and pre TV-am via each ITV company. The sound was lost on one occasion during Southern TV’s era, and ( eventually) Southern CA Christopher Robbie did a voiceover apology.


Was it a generic apology or did it reference the programme? Tony Currie has said previously that Black Hill had some generic apologies on cart that he recorded, so that could be a red herring? I'm also aware that EngAnn went out during the ITV strikes, although I guess they could have made special arrangements.


It was certainly live, because Chris stumbled and hesitated, something like ‘ ....apologies for the loss of sound on this.......erm.....programme...’. It sort of felt like he had been in the canteen having a cuppa, before getting in position for offical duties at 9:30, and someone had dragged him in to the booth ! It was several minutes of silence before his voice appeared

During the strike the programme was simply directly routed to the transmitters, just as the national apology caption and music was, ( which I was told came from the Aston in the Crawley Court studio gallery anyway, although Tony C says it was derived from the St Hilary ROC)
MA
Markymark
London Lite posted:
james-2001 posted:
Si-Co posted:

I wonder why Engineering Announcements was never billed in the TV Times or newspapers?


Because it wasn't aimed at regular viewers, only the trade?

Always feel disapointed I'm not old enough to have ever watched them myself (as the final one went out shortly after my 4th birthday), it's the sort of thing I'd have got up to see!


I used to get up to watch them on Channel 4. It's as much a memory of my childhood as watching Wacaday as a child. The first signs of the anorak I was to become!


In the 70s I used a timeswitch to switch on my bedroom telly, that fed a portable cassette recorder to record the audio of the programme while I was at school
Si-Co, Closedown and Steve in Pudsey gave kudos
MA
Markymark
Closedown posted:
I remember an occasion in the late 80s when Engineering Announcements went out with some sort of music soundtrack in the background, put down the following week to a switching fault. Also worth asking - what were the arrangements for Eng. Ann. when it came from Brompton road before Engineering moved to Winchester? I believe the programme in its early days went out live?


I think it was live from Brompton Road, and using more primative facilities there. The programme was launched in 1971ish I think as a temporary measure to inform the trade of relay station roll out, which had run into problems owing to technical issues regarding the technology. One of the final editions from 1991 on You Tube features the history of the programme

Crawley Court opened in 1973ish, and the IBA being the IBA built a well equipped studio and editing facilities ( primarily for internal training videos)
MA
Markymark
Si-Co posted:
Markymark posted:
Steve in Pudsey posted:
In that period it was simulcast on C4, so I have a theory that the IBA Regional Operations Centres (ROCs) remotely switched the ITV transmitters to the C4 feed at 0915 (while BT reconfigured the ITV feeds) then back to the ITV feed at 0925. Potentially with rebroadcast links in use for the remaining VHF transmitters that were not co-sited.


It came through C4 pres, and pre TV-am via each ITV company. The sound was lost on one occasion during Southern TV’s era, and ( eventually) Southern CA Christopher Robbie did a voiceover apology. During the TV-am era I’m not sure where it was routed via. It didn’t last long on ITV, it was C4 only once the 9:15 to 9:25 gap was filled.

The IBA recorded the programme Monday afternoons, and it was played out from CC on Tuesday mornings. They may well have sent it down the line to C4 on Monday night when it ended up shunted to 05:45 from 1989 ?


I’ve mentioned this before, but it seems the ITV companies were under no obligation to screen Engineering Announcements. Tyne Tees cut away from it early on one occasion around Easter 1982, and started their opening sequence at 9.18, cutting John Lovell off mid sentence.


I’m pretty sure the companies had to show it, the IBA was the broadcaster, and not them ! The programme was before the ITV ‘start ups’, so non programming time ( important distinction pre 1972) It was only routed via them as a matter of operational ease, ( as said during the strike it was routed directly to the transmitters anyway) I don’t know what Tyne Tees were playing at, I suspect they received a stiff letter, and possibly a fine ( unless it was an operational cock up)
IN
Interceptor
Markymark posted:
Si-Co posted:
Markymark posted:

It came through C4 pres, and pre TV-am via each ITV company. The sound was lost on one occasion during Southern TV’s era, and ( eventually) Southern CA Christopher Robbie did a voiceover apology. During the TV-am era I’m not sure where it was routed via. It didn’t last long on ITV, it was C4 only once the 9:15 to 9:25 gap was filled.

The IBA recorded the programme Monday afternoons, and it was played out from CC on Tuesday mornings. They may well have sent it down the line to C4 on Monday night when it ended up shunted to 05:45 from 1989 ?


I’ve mentioned this before, but it seems the ITV companies were under no obligation to screen Engineering Announcements. Tyne Tees cut away from it early on one occasion around Easter 1982, and started their opening sequence at 9.18, cutting John Lovell off mid sentence.


I’m pretty sure the companies had to show it, the IBA was the broadcaster, and not them ! The programme was before the ITV ‘start ups’, so non programming time ( important distinction pre 1972) It was only routed via them as a matter of operational ease, ( as said during the strike it was routed directly to the transmitters anyway) I don’t know what Tyne Tees were playing at, I suspect they received a stiff letter, and possibly a fine ( unless it was an operational cock up)

Is it possible that such things would have gone unnoticed? This being the days when a complaint would normally involve writing a letter...
CL
Closedown
Si-Co posted:
Markymark posted:
Steve in Pudsey posted:
In that period it was simulcast on C4, so I have a theory that the IBA Regional Operations Centres (ROCs) remotely switched the ITV transmitters to the C4 feed at 0915 (while BT reconfigured the ITV feeds) then back to the ITV feed at 0925. Potentially with rebroadcast links in use for the remaining VHF transmitters that were not co-sited.


It came through C4 pres, and pre TV-am via each ITV company. The sound was lost on one occasion during Southern TV’s era, and ( eventually) Southern CA Christopher Robbie did a voiceover apology. During the TV-am era I’m not sure where it was routed via. It didn’t last long on ITV, it was C4 only once the 9:15 to 9:25 gap was filled.

The IBA recorded the programme Monday afternoons, and it was played out from CC on Tuesday mornings. They may well have sent it down the line to C4 on Monday night when it ended up shunted to 05:45 from 1989 ?


I’ve mentioned this before, but it seems the ITV companies were under no obligation to screen Engineering Announcements. Tyne Tees cut away from it early on one occasion around Easter 1982, and started their opening sequence at 9.18, cutting John Lovell off mid sentence. The following week they showed the whole programme, and then crashed into their opening routine (Three Rivers Fantasy and the IBA slide) partway through the tune, which was very odd. Evidently they had a tightly packed schedule those mornings (it being during the Easter break in schools programmes), perhaps even taking their first proper programme from another company who didn’t have a Bible reading or news bulletin to squeeze in before it.

I wonder why Engineering Announcements was never billed in the TV Times or newspapers?


I do remember that in the pre-TVam days, Tyne Tees tended to start earlier than Yorkshire to squeeze in their religious prologue and/or news summary, but cutting Eng Ann short sounds like sacrilege to me. I wonder if City Road had planned their schedule based on a billed start time of 0920 and somehow forgotten about the IBA bulletin. They then had to make a decision on the fly.

As for TV Times, there was a spell where Engineering Announcements were mentioned - they are somewhere in my pdf set, will try and find one later.
CL
Closedown
Markymark posted:
Closedown posted:
I remember an occasion in the late 80s when Engineering Announcements went out with some sort of music soundtrack in the background, put down the following week to a switching fault. Also worth asking - what were the arrangements for Eng. Ann. when it came from Brompton road before Engineering moved to Winchester? I believe the programme in its early days went out live?


I think it was live from Brompton Road, and using more primative facilities there. The programme was launched in 1971ish I think as a temporary measure to inform the trade of relay station roll out, which had run into problems owing to technical issues regarding the technology. One of the final editions from 1991 on You Tube features the history of the programme

Crawley Court opened in 1973ish, and the IBA being the IBA built a well equipped studio and editing facilities ( primarily for internal training videos)


Remember hearing a recollection of a live Brompton Road edition where a tea-lady burst in and asked if the presenters wanted drinks, so 'primitive' was probably the word!
MA
Markymark
Interceptor posted:
Markymark posted:
Si-Co posted:

I’ve mentioned this before, but it seems the ITV companies were under no obligation to screen Engineering Announcements. Tyne Tees cut away from it early on one occasion around Easter 1982, and started their opening sequence at 9.18, cutting John Lovell off mid sentence.


I’m pretty sure the companies had to show it, the IBA was the broadcaster, and not them ! The programme was before the ITV ‘start ups’, so non programming time ( important distinction pre 1972) It was only routed via them as a matter of operational ease, ( as said during the strike it was routed directly to the transmitters anyway) I don’t know what Tyne Tees were playing at, I suspect they received a stiff letter, and possibly a fine ( unless it was an operational cock up)

Is it possible that such things would have gone unnoticed? This being the days when a complaint would normally involve writing a letter...


In 1982 the IBA were still monitoring all ITV companies output at their ROCs. In this case the ROC at Emley will have almost certainly noticed, and logged the event !
TT
ttt
Markymark posted:
Si-Co posted:
Markymark posted:

It came through C4 pres, and pre TV-am via each ITV company. The sound was lost on one occasion during Southern TV’s era, and ( eventually) Southern CA Christopher Robbie did a voiceover apology. During the TV-am era I’m not sure where it was routed via. It didn’t last long on ITV, it was C4 only once the 9:15 to 9:25 gap was filled.

The IBA recorded the programme Monday afternoons, and it was played out from CC on Tuesday mornings. They may well have sent it down the line to C4 on Monday night when it ended up shunted to 05:45 from 1989 ?


I’ve mentioned this before, but it seems the ITV companies were under no obligation to screen Engineering Announcements. Tyne Tees cut away from it early on one occasion around Easter 1982, and started their opening sequence at 9.18, cutting John Lovell off mid sentence.


I’m pretty sure the companies had to show it, the IBA was the broadcaster, and not them ! The programme was before the ITV ‘start ups’, so non programming time ( important distinction pre 1972) It was only routed via them as a matter of operational ease, ( as said during the strike it was routed directly to the transmitters anyway) I don’t know what Tyne Tees were playing at, I suspect they received a stiff letter, and possibly a fine ( unless it was an operational cock up)


I thought scheduling had to be agreed with the IBA in advance, so it's possible that the IBA knew the score and cleared it?

If the IBA were overrunning, and the schedule sheet states that they came out of the broadcast at time XX:XX:XX, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't surely?
MA
Markymark
ttt posted:
Markymark posted:
Si-Co posted:

I’ve mentioned this before, but it seems the ITV companies were under no obligation to screen Engineering Announcements. Tyne Tees cut away from it early on one occasion around Easter 1982, and started their opening sequence at 9.18, cutting John Lovell off mid sentence.


I’m pretty sure the companies had to show it, the IBA was the broadcaster, and not them ! The programme was before the ITV ‘start ups’, so non programming time ( important distinction pre 1972) It was only routed via them as a matter of operational ease, ( as said during the strike it was routed directly to the transmitters anyway) I don’t know what Tyne Tees were playing at, I suspect they received a stiff letter, and possibly a fine ( unless it was an operational cock up)


I thought scheduling had to be agreed with the IBA in advance, so it's possible that the IBA knew the score and cleared it?

If the IBA were overrunning, and the schedule sheet states that they came out of the broadcast at time XX:XX:XX, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't surely?


Well yes, if the IBA prog was overunning, then yes, it's justified and fair game. If the IBA had given approval, and it was 'known about' surely it wasn't terribly professional of Tyne Tees to crash out like that, they could have asked the IBA so produce a suitable 'opt out' point, even a 'goodbye to viewers of Tyne Tees' within the programme.

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