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bilky asko5,584 posts since 9 Sep 2006
Tyne Tees Look North (North East)
I don't know what the stats are for Family Fortunes but the odds of winning are tipped in favour of the production, sometimes significantly.

Crystal Maze it is documented only had 24 teams who won (seven of whom "won" under the first series prize format), with more than 100 gold tokens, out of the 83 teams who took part, that's only 30%. The newer series used the first series "winning" format (ie you win if you get <100 but more than 50 gold tokens) but even then its a much higher winning ratio, closer to 62%, albeit over a smaller number of episodes.

Other shows fare worse, CITV's Knightmare only had eight winners across its entire eight year run, an average of one a series but of course nobody won it in the first or third series, and two teams won it in the second series. There were 69 teams who had a crack at Knightmare, so that's only an 11% chance of winning.

I dare say more mainstream shows where the outcome is less predictable (like Tipping Point for example where you're relying on physics for the most part) may be closer to 40% winning ratio. Something like The Chase is probably pot luck on what questions you and the Chaser get and what knowledge, same for Pointless.


The One Question Shootout site has lots of statistics on The Chase. The overall team win rate is currently 24.8%.
JAS844,207 posts since 26 Aug 2010
Yorkshire Look North (E.Yorks & Lincs)
I see that site's webmaster has a sense of humour:
Quote:
This website does not use cookies - The Dark Destroyer says they are too loud and make too much mess when you eat them in the library.

This website does not use cookies - The Beast ate them all.

This website does not use cookies - The Vixen got too close and now they are burnt.
Laughing
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Lou Scannon and Gary Baldy gave kudos
PFMC841,639 posts since 28 Feb 2013
UTV Newsline
<foil hat>
I don't think Tipping Point is just physics. I'm still convinced there is someone behind that machine with a magnet! Laughing

Also, the way you see some counters move or get stuck when dropping, and the way they snake move whilst supposedly sitting still waiting for the shelf to carry it to the rest of the counters makes me think there is more to it than that.
</foil hat>
Neil Jones5,657 posts since 23 Dec 2001
Central (West) Midlands Today
Counters get stuck in the drop funnel because of the air resistance around them causing friction, its one of those effects that you don't see in your local arcade penny drop because the pennies (and the machines for for that matter) are smaller than on the TV show.

The back of the Tipping Point machine is here if anybody's interested:
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/tipping-point-behind-the-scenes-secrets_uk_5cb37c71e4b098b9a2d55351

With regards to magnets, I suspect there probably are some, but then again it still comes under physics and laws of attraction and its probably beyond doubt it's "fixed" to some extent, after all they don't want to give away £10k every episode, most only give out up to about £3k (some nothing at all) depending on the luck of the counters.
Gary McEwan3,432 posts since 23 May 2011
STV Central Reporting Scotland
Just out of curiosity, where do Challenge acquire shows from?

Currently watching the 1993 series of Bullseye which has been heavily edited at the start and at the end. It's goes almost straight from the titles into gameplay.

Do Challenge get them like this, or do they butcher them in their edit suite themselves.
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Gary Baldy gave kudos
Neil Jones5,657 posts since 23 Dec 2001
Central (West) Midlands Today
Those edits were done years ago when the channel was owned by Virgin and they're still using them now.
As Bullseye was made by Central you'd go to ITV for that back catalogue (of what they own anyway).

As a general rule: stuff made by an ITV company you'd go to ITV Studios for (for stuff they actually own or have inherited, which is most of the network output from England bar Thames (go to Fremantle), TVS (good luck with that!) and a few other things), shows the BBC made themselves you go to the BBC (obviously Wink) and indie stuff you either go to whoever made it (if they still exist) or whoever's bought the rights to that company's catalogue. This includes things like Total Wipeout which was made for the BBC but was actually IIRC Endemol. Crystal Maze, Interceptor and Treasure Hunt were all made for Channel 4 by Chatsworth but Chatsworth hasn't existed for years since Malcolm Heyworth retired but the rights live on somewhere since Challenge let the Maze expire and they bought them back again so somebody's obviously managing those assets.

As to what they receive, I believe its possibly a transmission master, ie what was intended to be broadcast at the time, with "call this number or write to this address to enter this competition" sort of references, its probably Challenge's responsibility to take all that out before it airs, otherwise people tend to be too thick to realise they're watching a 20 year old programme...
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Gary Baldy gave kudos
Neil Jones5,657 posts since 23 Dec 2001
Central (West) Midlands Today
Virgin's editing of programmes on Challenge got really horrific by the end. They even cut out most of the titles on Family Fortunes.


Ultimately aim was probably to get to "Hello welcome to Family Fortunes, I'm Les Dennis, thanks for watching, goodnight". Or at least that's what it felt like.

I think it may be obvious from a playout point of view that those episodes are shorter than everything else length wise (I presume Bullseye when it was on ITV ran to a fixed programme length every week?) but for whatever reason Sky don't seem keen to make new files. It may well be they don't have a "master" file anymore so they're stuck with what they have until they hand over a fistful of cash to ITV for new dubs.
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SuperSajuuk gave kudos
SuperSajuuk286 posts since 24 Feb 2018
STV North Reporting Scotland
Virgin Media edits are most noticeable with the Series 5+ edits to Millionaire, where all contestant intros are taken out and 30 min episodes get combined into hour long saga. So many edits become very obvious in some cases when they’re rushing the edits to get the two episodes complete in the one hour slot. Those edits are very sloppy and an indication that either the original tapes don’t exist any more, or Challenge doesn’t care to get a new copy to re-edit them properly.

It’s the same with many game shows they acquired during the VM days, lots of the "chat to contestants" is just edited out. This works in some cases, but not all (Winning Lines is a good example of the rather excessive editing, at times it felt too much even though it was mostly to cut out Lottery references)

I do hope Challenge/Sky make an effort down the line to reobtain the original tapes for many of these old game shows and re-edit them. The edits done by Challenge when they acquired Series 1-4 of Millionaire is how it should have been done for many game shows, although they could have just edited out only spoken phone numbers and covered up onscreen graphics, as in some cases, edits were pretty big jumps to cut out whole sections of "join this programme" ads
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Gary Baldy gave kudos
Neil Jones5,657 posts since 23 Dec 2001
Central (West) Midlands Today
Wipeout (Paul Daniels) was edited too to remove the contestant chat, the aim seemingly to squeeze it into a 30 minute transmission slot. Which they managed. Just.

I think if Challenge ever decide/need to get new prints to replace these edits, it'll have a major knock on to the schedule with regards to everything else and rules re: amount of advertising. Some edits are minor which they still use and predate Virgin (like some of Richard O'Brien's closing remarks on Crystal Maze for example which were edited back in the Flextech days). But I suspect if they're still using those edits 20 years on, there's little hope of anything newer being replaced.
Gary Baldy64 posts since 28 Dec 2018
Granada North West Today
Virgin Media edits are most noticeable with the Series 5+ edits to Millionaire, where all contestant intros are taken out and 30 min episodes get combined into hour long saga. So many edits become very obvious in some cases when they’re rushing the edits to get the two episodes complete in the one hour slot. Those edits are very sloppy and an indication that either the original tapes don’t exist any more, or Challenge doesn’t care to get a new copy to re-edit them properly.

It’s the same with many game shows they acquired during the VM days, lots of the "chat to contestants" is just edited out. This works in some cases, but not all (Winning Lines is a good example of the rather excessive editing, at times it felt too much even though it was mostly to cut out Lottery references)

I do hope Challenge/Sky make an effort down the line to reobtain the original tapes for many of these old game shows and re-edit them. The edits done by Challenge when they acquired Series 1-4 of Millionaire is how it should have been done for many game shows, although they could have just edited out only spoken phone numbers and covered up onscreen graphics, as in some cases, edits were pretty big jumps to cut out whole sections of "join this programme" ads


Speaking of wish, when will challenge re-acquire Series 1-4 of Millionaire? Loved watching the early seroes.

Sidenote- I was a contestant with Chris back in 2004 (won £8000), would I be able to apply for Jeremy's version as well?