TV
I knew I'd outmanouevre you one day, and now it's happened the sound of success is even sweeter.
GS
Arguing with you would be fairly pointless if my objective was to educate you. You're cooked. Done. You don't listen to anyone, least of all those who can shine a little light on the machinations of the industry.
My raison detre now is simply to challenge your erronious assertions so that other members realise you are a horse's ass.
Gavin Scott
Founding member
tvarksouthwest posted:
I knew I'd outmanouevre you one day, and now it's happened the sound of success is even sweeter.
Arguing with you would be fairly pointless if my objective was to educate you. You're cooked. Done. You don't listen to anyone, least of all those who can shine a little light on the machinations of the industry.
My raison detre now is simply to challenge your erronious assertions so that other members realise you are a horse's ass.
TV
But why do they have the filmic effect, eh? The desire to copy our transatlantic rivals should not be dismissed as a reason, nor should the desire for overseas sales.
PA
Arguing with you would be fairly pointless if my objective was to educate you. You're cooked. Done. You don't listen to anyone, least of all those who can shine a little light on the machinations of the industry.
My raison detre now is simply to challenge your erronious assertions so that other members realise you are a horse's ass.
Brilliant post!
*returns to the viewing stand*
Gavin Scott posted:
tvarksouthwest posted:
I knew I'd outmanouevre you one day, and now it's happened the sound of success is even sweeter.
Arguing with you would be fairly pointless if my objective was to educate you. You're cooked. Done. You don't listen to anyone, least of all those who can shine a little light on the machinations of the industry.
My raison detre now is simply to challenge your erronious assertions so that other members realise you are a horse's ass.
Brilliant post!
*returns to the viewing stand*
PA
It looks more expensive?
It creates a different, perhaps preferred atmosphere?
It looks more realistic?
This all seems to boil down to nothing more than personal preference.
tvarksouthwest posted:
But why do they have the filmic effect, eh? The desire to copy our transatlantic rivals should not be dismissed as a reason, nor should the desire for overseas sales.
It looks more expensive?
It creates a different, perhaps preferred atmosphere?
It looks more realistic?
This all seems to boil down to nothing more than personal preference.
NG
This is nothing to do with progressive vs interlace - it is to do with the number of picture captured per second (not the number of frames).
Casualty is currently 576/50i, Holby is 576/25p - but both are broadcast 576/50i interlaced - and displayed this way on native interlaced displays - CRTs and some plasmas using ALiS, or upconverted to progressive on progressive displays when de-interlaced in an LCD, DLP or Plasma not using ALiS.
The important visible difference isn't the interlaced vs progressive nature - it is the 50 vs 25. You can shoot progressively at both 25p and 50p (SVT uses 720/50p for its HD broadcasts in Sweden, as does Sky Italia in Italy) - but it is the picture rate that has a much greater impact on the visual look of the show than whether it is interlaced or progressive.
A 576/25p system delivers 25 frames per second - that is it samples the moving scene it is capturing 25 times per second. (The same as film shot for TV at 25Hz, and very similar to that of film shot for movies at 24Hz)
A 576/50i system delivers 50 fields per seond - with each field consisting of 288 alternate lines of the 576 line frame. However each of the 50 fields can be sampled at a different point in time - meaning that it samples the moving scene 50 times per second - giving twice as much motion information as 25p. (Modern TV cameras often operate internally at 50p and offset line average to create the 50i fields - effectively 50i delivers 288/50p resolution equivalent on fast motion and nearer 576/25p resolution on static scenes - ignoring Kell)
The result is that 25p material has a distinctive jerky motion capture - as film does - whereas 50i (and 50p progressive) material has a smoother, more fluid, and more realistic motion rendition, which is why it is always used for sports and news. 25p sports looks horrible.
The Bill, Eastenders and Casualty are supposed to be realistic, gritty dramas - and historically the 50i look has made them appear this way - with a more immediate, and more "real" look - like the News. Moving them to 25p gives them delusions of "film" and "big budget" - but in reality it can become distancing and less immediate.
It is interesting that some sitcoms used to use it - My Hero, and My Family - but it is not in favour at the moment. ISTR My Family ditched it.
50i to 25p conversion - where you still shoot using 50i cameras - has improved a bit (if you have the money) since Casualty first tried it (and they didn't do themselves any favours with their camera set-ups and lighting last time either) - but the current look on Holby is awful. I've stopped watching - I occasionally dipped in but now can't stand the "look". If you want to look like ER or Grey's Anatomy you need to do a lot better than they are currently.
noggin
Founding member
GaryC posted:
more bonkers arguments from tvarksouthwest.
closest to human vision is progressive tv pictures. The brain DOES NOT scan a picture into little lines, then understand the odd and even lines...
closest to human vision is progressive tv pictures. The brain DOES NOT scan a picture into little lines, then understand the odd and even lines...
This is nothing to do with progressive vs interlace - it is to do with the number of picture captured per second (not the number of frames).
Casualty is currently 576/50i, Holby is 576/25p - but both are broadcast 576/50i interlaced - and displayed this way on native interlaced displays - CRTs and some plasmas using ALiS, or upconverted to progressive on progressive displays when de-interlaced in an LCD, DLP or Plasma not using ALiS.
The important visible difference isn't the interlaced vs progressive nature - it is the 50 vs 25. You can shoot progressively at both 25p and 50p (SVT uses 720/50p for its HD broadcasts in Sweden, as does Sky Italia in Italy) - but it is the picture rate that has a much greater impact on the visual look of the show than whether it is interlaced or progressive.
A 576/25p system delivers 25 frames per second - that is it samples the moving scene it is capturing 25 times per second. (The same as film shot for TV at 25Hz, and very similar to that of film shot for movies at 24Hz)
A 576/50i system delivers 50 fields per seond - with each field consisting of 288 alternate lines of the 576 line frame. However each of the 50 fields can be sampled at a different point in time - meaning that it samples the moving scene 50 times per second - giving twice as much motion information as 25p. (Modern TV cameras often operate internally at 50p and offset line average to create the 50i fields - effectively 50i delivers 288/50p resolution equivalent on fast motion and nearer 576/25p resolution on static scenes - ignoring Kell)
The result is that 25p material has a distinctive jerky motion capture - as film does - whereas 50i (and 50p progressive) material has a smoother, more fluid, and more realistic motion rendition, which is why it is always used for sports and news. 25p sports looks horrible.
The Bill, Eastenders and Casualty are supposed to be realistic, gritty dramas - and historically the 50i look has made them appear this way - with a more immediate, and more "real" look - like the News. Moving them to 25p gives them delusions of "film" and "big budget" - but in reality it can become distancing and less immediate.
It is interesting that some sitcoms used to use it - My Hero, and My Family - but it is not in favour at the moment. ISTR My Family ditched it.
50i to 25p conversion - where you still shoot using 50i cameras - has improved a bit (if you have the money) since Casualty first tried it (and they didn't do themselves any favours with their camera set-ups and lighting last time either) - but the current look on Holby is awful. I've stopped watching - I occasionally dipped in but now can't stand the "look". If you want to look like ER or Grey's Anatomy you need to do a lot better than they are currently.
PT
I remember when Emmerdale went filmic for about two weeks then ditched it, then decided to bring it back for Marlon and Tricia's wedding then...after a few weeks ditched it again.
TV
Which is exactly why Casualty should continue as it is. If the drama isn't in the script no "big budget" look will make up for that.
noggin posted:
The Bill, Eastenders and Casualty are supposed to be realistic, gritty dramas - and historically the 50i look has made them appear this way - with a more immediate, and more "real" look - like the News. Moving them to 25p gives them delusions of "film" and "big budget" - but in reality it can become distancing and less immediate.
Which is exactly why Casualty should continue as it is. If the drama isn't in the script no "big budget" look will make up for that.
R2
Surely the idea of Casualty is to have urgency and give you the idea that you're actually there. By doing this silly film effect will just slow it down and make it look like a film, which I think ruins the atmosphere. Also the picture quality generally becomes worse when this effect is used, which can't be a good thing. True it looks good on some things, but not on a drama like Casualty.
Whilst we're discussing frame rates, what's the difference between progressive and interlaced?
Whilst we're discussing frame rates, what's the difference between progressive and interlaced?