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russnet
Founding member
They were all as bad as each other. Granada with their takeovers of LWT, Yorkshire, Tynes Tees etc, Meridian with their takeovers of Anglia and HTV. Carlton only get the flak because they removed the names of Central and Westcountry but retained friendly presentation yet Granada on the other half destroyed what they took over, closed down various units, studios, regional commitments etc and you end up with what we have today.
AM
As stated in another thread - CPV-TV would only have been allowed to have one franchise, in those days!!! Don't forget that arlton had multiple bids for a couple of other regions as well but only ended up with Thames'old franchise (still dubious as to whether there had been gvt, of the time, interved on Thames losing the franchse - Death on the Rock anyone!!!!)
DrCheese posted:
CPV-TV would have sucked even more, they wanted to gain 3 regions from the get go and combine the presentation and so on from the start.
At least with Carlton we had a few years before they started to suck up bits of the network
At least with Carlton we had a few years before they started to suck up bits of the network
As stated in another thread - CPV-TV would only have been allowed to have one franchise, in those days!!! Don't forget that arlton had multiple bids for a couple of other regions as well but only ended up with Thames'old franchise (still dubious as to whether there had been gvt, of the time, interved on Thames losing the franchse - Death on the Rock anyone!!!!)
:-(
A former member
so what was TVAM reason?
does that prove that even if you in the same bed.... your not safe?
does that prove that even if you in the same bed.... your not safe?
RS
Not entirely true as Carlton was outbid by CPV-TV by another million and a half if it was down to money and TVS (bless em) would still be around today.
Re : Carlton - Michael Green was a big Thatcher supporter and had funded the Tories. He had been stopped in the 80s from buying Thames . So he was 'owed' a tv franchise by Thatcher. Foregone conclusion that one. And Death on the Rock was used as an excuse.
Thames had a fantastic track record, had served its region well and produced alot of network programming. Carlton was a poor choice if you compare it to Thames on the quality factor.
Re TVS - didn't James Gatwards's expansion into American interests muck up their bank balance abit?
Also I remember being told that one of the main problems with the CPV-TV bids was the lack of pertinent regional identity - each one was identical except for a 'your regional name here' element.
russnet posted:
Roy Slaven posted:
Previous franchise rounds were judged on quality - in 1991 it was about who had the biggest wallet.
Not entirely true as Carlton was outbid by CPV-TV by another million and a half if it was down to money and TVS (bless em) would still be around today.
Re : Carlton - Michael Green was a big Thatcher supporter and had funded the Tories. He had been stopped in the 80s from buying Thames . So he was 'owed' a tv franchise by Thatcher. Foregone conclusion that one. And Death on the Rock was used as an excuse.
Thames had a fantastic track record, had served its region well and produced alot of network programming. Carlton was a poor choice if you compare it to Thames on the quality factor.
Re TVS - didn't James Gatwards's expansion into American interests muck up their bank balance abit?
Also I remember being told that one of the main problems with the CPV-TV bids was the lack of pertinent regional identity - each one was identical except for a 'your regional name here' element.
:-(
One has to wonder if this wasn't part of a grand conspiracy on the part of the two stations -- bear in mind that this started around the time that it became obvious that Carlton and Granada would end up as one company.
Have one side get rid of the identities but keep at least part of the companies intact -- "ah but the companies are unaffected, it's just a rebranding exercise" says Carlton.
Meanwhile, have the other half keep the identities but slowly shut down the stations behind the scenes. Granada thus gets away with it as the "regions are intact".
Come the merger, complete the shutdown in both cases -- complaints are fragmented -- ITV pulls it off.
If they'd gone the other way, the complaints would have been louder and they may have been forced into concessions.
If anyone is naive enough to believe that Carlton/Granada wasn't capable of such forward thinking, look at how things have turned out -- this was a careful and systematic destruction of the network, done in such a way as to hoodwink the viewer.
A former member
russnet posted:
They were all as bad as each other. Granada with their takeovers of LWT, Yorkshire, Tynes Tees etc, Meridian with their takeovers of Anglia and HTV. Carlton only get the flak because they removed the names of Central and Westcountry but retained friendly presentation yet Granada on the other half destroyed what they took over, closed down various units, studios, regional commitments etc and you end up with what we have today.
One has to wonder if this wasn't part of a grand conspiracy on the part of the two stations -- bear in mind that this started around the time that it became obvious that Carlton and Granada would end up as one company.
Have one side get rid of the identities but keep at least part of the companies intact -- "ah but the companies are unaffected, it's just a rebranding exercise" says Carlton.
Meanwhile, have the other half keep the identities but slowly shut down the stations behind the scenes. Granada thus gets away with it as the "regions are intact".
Come the merger, complete the shutdown in both cases -- complaints are fragmented -- ITV pulls it off.
If they'd gone the other way, the complaints would have been louder and they may have been forced into concessions.
If anyone is naive enough to believe that Carlton/Granada wasn't capable of such forward thinking, look at how things have turned out -- this was a careful and systematic destruction of the network, done in such a way as to hoodwink the viewer.
RS
quote="jason"]
-- bear in mind that this started around the time that it became obvious that Carlton and Granada would end up as one company .
I largely agree with what you say Jason- apart from (if I have understood correctly) .... the fact that I don't think it was obvious that Granada and Carlton were going to end up as one company at the time. No one knew then just how this franchise round was going to affect the future... .
It was the further rule relaxing that came after 1991 that triggered the two biggest fish Carlton and Granada's mad dash to start swallowing up the smaller companies.
LWT certainly started going down hill in 1994 after Granada's hostile takeover.
-- bear in mind that this started around the time that it became obvious that Carlton and Granada would end up as one company .
I largely agree with what you say Jason- apart from (if I have understood correctly) .... the fact that I don't think it was obvious that Granada and Carlton were going to end up as one company at the time. No one knew then just how this franchise round was going to affect the future... .
It was the further rule relaxing that came after 1991 that triggered the two biggest fish Carlton and Granada's mad dash to start swallowing up the smaller companies.
LWT certainly started going down hill in 1994 after Granada's hostile takeover.
DA
PCA was made by Optomen Television (an independent producer still around today) IIRC. Living in the region I never liked Carlton as it was a johnny come lately back then, had bland idents and it was hard too find something that they made themselves. Catchphrase was brilliant though but as someone else said they were made by Action Time and previously TVS.
nwtv2003 posted:
I still think that the only half decent programme that Carlton London has ever made was Police, Camera, Action! and that was only thanks to the excellent Alastair Stewart.
PCA was made by Optomen Television (an independent producer still around today) IIRC. Living in the region I never liked Carlton as it was a johnny come lately back then, had bland idents and it was hard too find something that they made themselves. Catchphrase was brilliant though but as someone else said they were made by Action Time and previously TVS.
:-(
A former member
Sorry... what I meant was that the race to cripple the regions began in earnest around 1999-2000, whereas before then they were just cutting costs around the edges (pres, admin departments etc). That was around the point where Carlton imposed its branding on its subsidiaries, and Granada began ripping its stations to shreads.
