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Bye Bye Border

(July 2006)

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ST
STVNews
RJG posted:
I know that OFCOM consulted on the amount of Scottish programming "Border Scotland" should be obliged to carry. What the outcome was, I don't know. The issue, as it has been since Border opened in 1961, is that, in ITA/IBA terms, the South of Scotland is regarded as being in England. The "Border Scotland" service, a very recent phenomenon, is a response to increasing complaints about the validity, or otherwise, of continuing an arrangement which does give local news but offers little coverage in a national Scottish sense. Border's response, in the first three decades and more, was always that "only one third of our audience are Scots". In other words, the good citizens of Carlisle, Cleator Moor and Workington would be very upset about seeing more than a token amount of Scottish programming. True...but why should people be treated like a minority in their own country? The other argument they trotted out, in the days before they screened Scotsport, was that there was "no local interest" in the programme. Even on the weekend when Grampian and STV audiences could see St Johnstone v Berwick in a Scottish cup tie...and Border screened highlights of Fulham v Southampton, or some such!


Same time though, how relevent would people in the borders and dumfries-shire feel a region based in Glasgow was if Border Scotland was in future transferred to STV? I think alot more people in the borders would rather hear news from Carlisle than Glasgow. I don't see why the current arrangement could still work - continuing with the opt-out scottish/english programming.
RJ
RJG
A possible solution would have been/could be a separate service from Craigkelly and Selkirk, and their relays, covering the Lothians, Fife and the Borders. I know many in Edinburgh feel STV is basically, Glasgow TV. After all, people in Galashiels, Lauder and Peebles have far stronger links with Edinburgh (Fire and police are "lothian and Borders for instance), than they've ever had with Carlisle. It's a wierd anomaly which has a local TV station based in another country "serving" communities 30 minutes or less from their own capital city.
SO
Steven O
SCOTLAND TODAY ADDICT posted:
RJG posted:
I know that OFCOM consulted on the amount of Scottish programming "Border Scotland" should be obliged to carry. What the outcome was, I don't know. The issue, as it has been since Border opened in 1961, is that, in ITA/IBA terms, the South of Scotland is regarded as being in England. The "Border Scotland" service, a very recent phenomenon, is a response to increasing complaints about the validity, or otherwise, of continuing an arrangement which does give local news but offers little coverage in a national Scottish sense. Border's response, in the first three decades and more, was always that "only one third of our audience are Scots". In other words, the good citizens of Carlisle, Cleator Moor and Workington would be very upset about seeing more than a token amount of Scottish programming. True...but why should people be treated like a minority in their own country? The other argument they trotted out, in the days before they screened Scotsport, was that there was "no local interest" in the programme. Even on the weekend when Grampian and STV audiences could see St Johnstone v Berwick in a Scottish cup tie...and Border screened highlights of Fulham v Southampton, or some such!


Same time though, how relevent would people in the borders and dumfries-shire feel a region based in Glasgow was if Border Scotland was in future transferred to STV? I think alot more people in the borders would rather hear news from Carlisle than Glasgow. I don't see why the current arrangement could still work - continuing with the opt-out scottish/english programming.


I'd imagine, if Border Scotland was swallowed up by STV, then Dumfries & Galloway and the Borders would then become macro-regions, with local newsrooms located in, say, Dumfries and Galashiels for news to be fed in to the national programme, and also to provide opt-outs for these areas.
The main issue is that people in South Scotland are mostly being denied access to programmes seen in other parts of the country, simply due to the ITA/IBA or whatever classifying the area as being part of England.

Another consequence of this is that you have the South Ayrshire towns of Ballantrae and Pinwherry receiving their "local" television service from Carlisle instead of Glasgow.
:-(
A former member
The thing is Scotland has 5 million people yet has 3 TV company doing ITV
While in London - Old LWT, Midlands - central there have over 5 millions viewers but one have 1 TV Company doing the job! You know there could easier get rid of Boarders TV and slip it up 3 years.

It does seem a bit strange, personally you get away with having the WHOLE of Scotland under the STV brand with local opt out form news.
BS
brotherton sands
Steven O posted:
Work of Artifice posted:
Hymagumba posted:
623058 posted:
Time may come when ITV and OFCOM are forced to move borders Scotland to STV,


why?


Well, I guess that having an England/Scotland-trancending region seems rather at odds with the increasingly "devolving" UK, so Hymagumba could be right.


Don't you mean 623058?


Right you are. I always get confused when dual-quoting Embarassed
ST
STVNews
RJG posted:
A possible solution would have been/could be a separate service from Craigkelly and Selkirk, and their relays, covering the Lothians, Fife and the Borders. I know many in Edinburgh feel STV is basically, Glasgow TV. After all, people in Galashiels, Lauder and Peebles have far stronger links with Edinburgh (Fire and police are "lothian and Borders for instance), than they've ever had with Carlisle. It's a wierd anomaly which has a local TV station based in another country "serving" communities 30 minutes or less from their own capital city.
Suppose so, but I suppose many think stv = glasgow tv becuase ultimately a news show needs to follow where the news happens - and ultimately the most news will occur/be of interest to people around the largest centres of population like strathclyde.
PE
Pete Founding member
623058 posted:
The thing is Scotland has 5 million people yet has 3 TV company doing ITV
While in London - Old LWT, Midlands - central there have over 5 millions viewers but one have 1 TV Company doing the job! You know there could easier get rid of Boarders TV and slip it up 3 years.

It does seem a bit strange, personally you get away with having the WHOLE of Scotland under the STV brand with local opt out form news.


yes, however these are 5 million in a smallish area. There are considerable differences between Kelso and Gala and Hawick, let alone the whole of Scotland. The country may be more sparsley populated however it certain has distinct communities.
SO
Steven O
Hymagumba posted:
623058 posted:
The thing is Scotland has 5 million people yet has 3 TV company doing ITV
While in London - Old LWT, Midlands - central there have over 5 millions viewers but one have 1 TV Company doing the job! You know there could easier get rid of Boarders TV and slip it up 3 years.

It does seem a bit strange, personally you get away with having the WHOLE of Scotland under the STV brand with local opt out form news.


yes, however these are 5 million in a smallish area. There are considerable differences between Kelso and Gala and Hawick, let alone the whole of Scotland. The country may be more sparsley populated however it certain has distinct communities.


In OFCOM's eyes stv are serving the whole of Scotland - their borderline starts at Girvan and ends at Cockburnspath!
RJ
RJG
Interestingly, Border's managing director, Paddy Merrill, isn't bothered by the loss of Berwick because, "we're all one ITV now"...so much for a commitment to local communities!

Would it be a different story, I wonder, if it was proposed to switch Selkirk and its relays to STV (which isn't, of course, part of the "one ITV" on terms of ownership)?
SO
Steven O
RJG posted:
Interestingly, Border's managing director, Paddy Merrill, isn't bothered by the loss of Berwick because, "we're all one ITV now"...so much for a commitment to local communities!

Would it be a different story, I wonder, if it was proposed to switch Selkirk and its relays to STV (which isn't, of course, part of the "one ITV" on terms of ownership)?


I do wonder. To me, Paddy's statement seemed to have a hint of inevitability about it.
:-(
A former member
after speaking to OFCOM, it say ITV1 Can make a request to spilt Boarder TV station into two, operation areas, one for Scotland which could go to STV, and the north on England that could stay in ITV1 hands,

Maybe people in the south of Scotland should start a Petition to get the ITV to do this!

Although, I was shock to found out that ITV could do this, and I though it would be up to OFCOM to do this type of thing,

Really what is the point of OFCOM these days!
SO
Steven O
You can't just get rid of a TV station just like that though. What's happening at Berwick is a re-allocation to a neighbouring region, to bring it into line with the rest of the North-East when it goes digital in 2012.

While, in theory, Cumbria could be re-allocated to Granada and South Scotland to STV, it would require legislative change to allow the Border TV area to be formally dissolved.

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