SP
If you have a sufficiently capable automation system would there be a need for a second gallery? Would it not be a case that the main gallery could either operate in fully staffed mode with manual control of most things and the automation assisting, or in automated mode for simple bulletins where the director just keeps pressing next and the automation handles everything?
I suspect most regions have the mini-gallery for flexibility and redundancy reasons, but it sounds like it should be possible to borrow Breakfast's gallery should it be needed. I can't imagine they'd engineer it so that each studio floor could only be used with one gallery in this day and age.
Many regional operations have two galleries - one for main bulletins (which presumably could be shared with Breakfast) and one for short bulletins (Breakfast etc.) This would require two Mosart installations if both were to use the same automation systems.
If you have a sufficiently capable automation system would there be a need for a second gallery? Would it not be a case that the main gallery could either operate in fully staffed mode with manual control of most things and the automation assisting, or in automated mode for simple bulletins where the director just keeps pressing next and the automation handles everything?
I suspect most regions have the mini-gallery for flexibility and redundancy reasons, but it sounds like it should be possible to borrow Breakfast's gallery should it be needed. I can't imagine they'd engineer it so that each studio floor could only be used with one gallery in this day and age.
NG
If you have a sufficiently capable automation system would there be a need for a second gallery? Would it not be a case that the main gallery could either operate in fully staffed mode with manual control of most things and the automation assisting, or in automated mode for simple bulletins where the director just keeps pressing next and the automation handles everything?
You can - and in some regions they do. There are pluses and minuses both ways round - sometimes having a second mini-gallery can be cheaper than making your main gallery work two ways - and it can avoid compromises that might otherwise have to be made... However newer automation systems can be more flexible than the older set-ups - which were quite tricky to integrate into shows that weren't fully automated.
I suspect most regions have the mini-gallery for flexibility and redundancy reasons, but it sounds like it should be possible to borrow Breakfast's gallery should it be needed. I can't imagine they'd engineer it so that each studio floor could only be used with one gallery in this day and age.
At one point the mini gallery also allowed some regions to opt-out on BBC One and Two at the same time, or to record in one whilst on-air in the other (particularly when there were lots of bulletins during daytime - now long gone - and local presentation - massively long gone!)
Certainly it wasn't unusual for the mini/pres-gallery to be doing a daytime afternoon summary whilst the main gallery was doing pre-records - sometimes lengthy ones.
I suspect again it will be a cost thing - there's a different ways of engineering links between multiple studios and galleries. Some would allow everything to be re-routed almost instantaneously, others might require significant replugging. The cost of making everything resiliently switchable is not insignificant, and still may not be justifiable in all cases, though can probably be argued in others.
noggin
Founding member
Many regional operations have two galleries - one for main bulletins (which presumably could be shared with Breakfast) and one for short bulletins (Breakfast etc.) This would require two Mosart installations if both were to use the same automation systems.
If you have a sufficiently capable automation system would there be a need for a second gallery? Would it not be a case that the main gallery could either operate in fully staffed mode with manual control of most things and the automation assisting, or in automated mode for simple bulletins where the director just keeps pressing next and the automation handles everything?
You can - and in some regions they do. There are pluses and minuses both ways round - sometimes having a second mini-gallery can be cheaper than making your main gallery work two ways - and it can avoid compromises that might otherwise have to be made... However newer automation systems can be more flexible than the older set-ups - which were quite tricky to integrate into shows that weren't fully automated.
Quote:
I suspect most regions have the mini-gallery for flexibility and redundancy reasons, but it sounds like it should be possible to borrow Breakfast's gallery should it be needed. I can't imagine they'd engineer it so that each studio floor could only be used with one gallery in this day and age.
At one point the mini gallery also allowed some regions to opt-out on BBC One and Two at the same time, or to record in one whilst on-air in the other (particularly when there were lots of bulletins during daytime - now long gone - and local presentation - massively long gone!)
Certainly it wasn't unusual for the mini/pres-gallery to be doing a daytime afternoon summary whilst the main gallery was doing pre-records - sometimes lengthy ones.
I suspect again it will be a cost thing - there's a different ways of engineering links between multiple studios and galleries. Some would allow everything to be re-routed almost instantaneously, others might require significant replugging. The cost of making everything resiliently switchable is not insignificant, and still may not be justifiable in all cases, though can probably be argued in others.
Last edited by noggin on 24 May 2011 10:59pm
NG
BBC is the BBC (!)
Mosart is a Norwegian automation system that is popular in Scandinavia and other parts of Europe. I think it was developed initially by or with TV2 Norway.
Interestingly Viz was also initially spun out of TV2 Norway I believe...
The BBC have awarded Mosart the contract for broadcast automation for their news operation at Broadcasting House (with Quantel providing the server and editing infrastructure with some Apple FCP gear as well). As a result of Newsround and Breakfast locating to Salford, Mosart is also being deployed there (and I guess NWT get it by proxy).
It effectively replaces the mix of Omnibus (now Miranda) Columbus automation and News Control kit in use in W12 News areas - and adds more facilities as it was created from the bottom up for News operations rather than being a Presentation playout system re-purposed for News.
noggin
Founding member
Sorry, but I seem to have missed something - what's BBC Mosart?
BBC is the BBC (!)
Mosart is a Norwegian automation system that is popular in Scandinavia and other parts of Europe. I think it was developed initially by or with TV2 Norway.
Interestingly Viz was also initially spun out of TV2 Norway I believe...
The BBC have awarded Mosart the contract for broadcast automation for their news operation at Broadcasting House (with Quantel providing the server and editing infrastructure with some Apple FCP gear as well). As a result of Newsround and Breakfast locating to Salford, Mosart is also being deployed there (and I guess NWT get it by proxy).
It effectively replaces the mix of Omnibus (now Miranda) Columbus automation and News Control kit in use in W12 News areas - and adds more facilities as it was created from the bottom up for News operations rather than being a Presentation playout system re-purposed for News.
NG
If you have three separate areas all producing and on-air, recording or rehearsing at the same time - you probably need three set-ups. And certainly you'd want some form of resilience as well.
noggin
Founding member
And if you're kitting out a new build costing millions, you may as well spend the money to make it as good as possible and have three rather than two, surely.
If you have three separate areas all producing and on-air, recording or rehearsing at the same time - you probably need three set-ups. And certainly you'd want some form of resilience as well.
DE
Indeed - there were instructions in the old Bristol Pres gallery on how to get Pres to opt on 2 while Gallery-A opted on 1. Those procedures maintained digital opting on DTT from the main gallery as well as subtitles from the main gallery. Of course opting Network 2 on DTT was never implemented in any English Region. That will have been in about 2004 - I never saw pres opted on one channel while the main gallery was opted on the other. I never saw pres used for an opt while A was doing a prerec either, but there were two production talkback feeds to the floor and of course pres and main had their own outputs on the matrix to allow such a thing should it have been required.
The nearest I've heard of something like this happening is Bristol's new pres gallery being used to put an analogue-only version of a package for digital switchover out during Points West's final analogue programme. AIUI, they opted DTT/DSAT via the main gallery and Analogue via pres. Pres took the main gallery's output until the point the DSO package was run and then played a different package. They did it a couple of times in the days leading up to DSO. All very well handled and I think unique in English Regions that have switched so far...
At one point the mini gallery also allowed some regions to opt-out on BBC One and Two at the same time, or to record in one whilst on-air in the other (particularly when there were lots of bulletins during daytime - now long gone - and local presentation - massively long gone!)
Indeed - there were instructions in the old Bristol Pres gallery on how to get Pres to opt on 2 while Gallery-A opted on 1. Those procedures maintained digital opting on DTT from the main gallery as well as subtitles from the main gallery. Of course opting Network 2 on DTT was never implemented in any English Region. That will have been in about 2004 - I never saw pres opted on one channel while the main gallery was opted on the other. I never saw pres used for an opt while A was doing a prerec either, but there were two production talkback feeds to the floor and of course pres and main had their own outputs on the matrix to allow such a thing should it have been required.
The nearest I've heard of something like this happening is Bristol's new pres gallery being used to put an analogue-only version of a package for digital switchover out during Points West's final analogue programme. AIUI, they opted DTT/DSAT via the main gallery and Analogue via pres. Pres took the main gallery's output until the point the DSO package was run and then played a different package. They did it a couple of times in the days leading up to DSO. All very well handled and I think unique in English Regions that have switched so far...
MW
I don't like the window, it means the NW will be victim to the lazy set designer, whereby the walls and non window based features will be replaced, never. It also means there's virtually no scope for change and when Media City ends up looking a state through BBC occupation, it will start being shown on camera, and they'll want new ways to distort the view...
SP
BBC Leeds have played out The Superleague Show on BBC2 while the Politics Show was on BBC1, which I imagine would have needed both galleries, and possibly a little help from Manchester CTA.
When Inside Out is in a 7.30 slot wouldn't some regions choose to use both galleries, one playing out Inside Out and the other rehearsing the 8pm update?
When Inside Out is in a 7.30 slot wouldn't some regions choose to use both galleries, one playing out Inside Out and the other rehearsing the 8pm update?
NG
Exactly...
noggin
Founding member
BBC Leeds have played out The Superleague Show on BBC2 while the Politics Show was on BBC1, which I imagine would have needed both galleries, and possibly a little help from Manchester CTA.
When Inside Out is in a 7.30 slot wouldn't some regions choose to use both galleries, one playing out Inside Out and the other rehearsing the 8pm update?
When Inside Out is in a 7.30 slot wouldn't some regions choose to use both galleries, one playing out Inside Out and the other rehearsing the 8pm update?
Exactly...
NE
I stand by this with Breakfast as well, with an actual window view, it doesn't leave much scope for change in the future. When you look at how different each look of NWT in the above video can be with a proper studio, I think it proves a proper studio is better than windows. Midlands Today are in the same position really - stuck with what they've got with only a bit of frosted glass to make it different.
The decisions have been made though so my post is quite futile.
What makes you assume it's going to be windows...?
When North West Tonight did a report on the move a year or two ago, the place they were supposed to be going did look tiny. I'd imagine plans have changed since the announcement that Breakfast was moving.
I stand by this with Breakfast as well, with an actual window view, it doesn't leave much scope for change in the future. When you look at how different each look of NWT in the above video can be with a proper studio, I think it proves a proper studio is better than windows. Midlands Today are in the same position really - stuck with what they've got with only a bit of frosted glass to make it different.
The decisions have been made though so my post is quite futile.
What makes you assume it's going to be windows...?
RT
rtl70
What makes you assume it's going to be windows...?
I guess it'll probably be the usual BBC lazy set design of boarding up a real view and sticking a plasma in front of it showing you what you would have seen had they not blocked the window in the first place.