Bragg to make "History of ITV"

Well they say "It's different in each region so that makes it regional" - in theory, yes but in practice, well, no really.

Andrew I did list the new 10.30 on Thursday slot in my message - However I said its decreasing as didnt GMG regions show regional progs Mon-Wed and also Fri at 2.30pm?

ITV1 Wales are very good with regional progs - they get 5 hrs of local progs (not including local news) so thats 3 more slots than other regions!

Not that they've got much choice on the matter.

Isn't that banner aimed at advertisers, anything with "the power..." generally is. Aimed at advertisers then the banner is right


Also, they could be talking about network programmes, as far as I know many more programmes are made in the regions (up north usually) than any other broadcaster

they already do "waste" (as you put it) money on programmes you cannot receive, and have done for many years. why are viewers in the provinces more deserving of local programming, and yet you would begrudge the viewers in the east, yorkshire and everywhere else in england?

and surely if local dramas, docos and sport were rolled out across england, it would, if anything, level out the playing field seeing as the provinces currently have more dedicated programming.

Nope, just MPs!

http://regionals.granadainteractive.com/

I don't think just having regionally sub-branded idents would make ITV regional again.

It would be the North West getting show after show after show set in Manchester, Liverpool, Blackpool, Burnley, or a fictional North West town; and London getting shows about the Metropolios - like "The London Programme" but more of it.

The Midlands and London getting "Central Weekend" and "Thursday Night Live" type programmes, with each region having a different one (Granada still do "The Big Debate" do they?)

Not just this but making it CLEAR where these are, where regional sport is, where coverage of regional events are, and making their schedules so different that they HAVE to have localised continuity, just out of practicalities' sake - i.e. even forgetting the historical 'friendliness' reasons.

ITV isn't as unregional as many people believe but is not as regional as it used to be. However people have grown accustomed to a non-regional ITV because the branding and promotion leads them to believe there aren't any regional programmes on anymore. I think most people in the North West, for instance, would assume that a programme from Manchester would be being seen by everyone else on ITV, in the same way that "Question Time" can come from anywhere on BBC1 but be seen throughout the country.

The number of times my family in the Midlands have mentioned a programme and thought that I could see it in London, but I couldn't because it was Midlands only. It's not always apparent, which goes to show that even the regional output there IS is no longer seen as being regional. Which adds to ITV's argument that people don't notice it/want it/care. And maybe many don't. But if the whole country had as much of their schedule taken up with documentaries about, or programmes set in or coming from Birmingham or Newcastle, as they do about/set in/come from London, there would be voices of dissent rising slowly but steadily after a month or two for sure, mainly from the south Midlands downwards.

That is from the (now completely dead - I see that one was just a flash in the pan idea to try and keep ITV's image up amongst politicians at a sensitive time) ITV regional news browser website. A good little service, but it just seemed to good to be true to believe that they'd keep it going - which they haven't.


Because they have to. Not for any other reason. If the regulator reduced the requirements, ITV would reduce their regional output overnight.


Perhaps because those who decide it's fate CAN take it for granted. What they are doing will never work, it will go under eventually (and i've stated why I think that is many times before). But I'm not so naieve to believe that it will happen any time soon. Unfortunately, something which isn't an immediate problem just isn't a problem at all as far as the decision makers are concerned. Look at how often the senior people at 'ITV' are replaced - if they last much more than a year, then they're practically a veteran now. All that means, is that no one in authority cares what they do to ITV - what they are doing makes them more money in the short term, and when the ultimate collapse happens they will be long gone. We need to see government intervention to lock senior ITV officials into (at least) 5 year contracts to have any hope of 'ITV' acting in the best interests of it's future.


If that were the case, maybe. But it just won't be. They claimed that reducing the regional programming level was actually a good thing - because now they'd be able to spend more money on better programmes. The old 'quality is better than quantity' argument. But it hasn't worked out like that - they now just spend less money on less regional programming - and that money didn't go into network programming either, it just disappeared from the books. If they are released from their regional comitments, they won't invest in decent primetime programming, they will divert a negligable amount into it purely as a publicity stunt, and then the rest of the money will just be absorbed into trying to slow their increasingly sliding position.


I would agree on that point. OK this time last year (just about anyway) the names were still trotted out at every single junction, but they didn't really mean very much any more. And for the rest of 2002, despite the absence of the regional names, there was actually no real difference to ITV's programming output - the financing and comitments were all the same, Sunday afternoon still involved hours and hours of regional output etc.

But, the difference between using the regional names on idents and not is that it's much easier to get away with what they are doing now.

If you moved from Manchester to Leeds and saw your ITV station name change from 'Granada' to 'Yorkshire' there was still a perceivement that they should be two distinct services. In actual fact they both came from the same building and often the same links were played out over both (over 4 stations in total, with Tyne Tees and Border also being run from Leeds) but nevertheless whilst the regional identities were still prominent, it would be very hard to pass off the kind of regional programming cuts that they have done today. And if/when they do get down to just having regional news, if the regional names were still in use at every link, it would be very hard to claim they are a regional network on one hand, and at the same time have almost nothing to show the differences between regions.

Thus, the 'ITV1' idea is the key to a coverup of epic proportions. They can trot out all their crap about a single uniform brand enabling them to compete more effectively and this absolutely not being an attempt to end their status as a regional network etc etc, but what they have actually done it for (apart from being able to close down a regional continuity centre or five and thus shed jobs) is to create a platform for them to erode the remaining regional comitments without being too obvious about it; with most of the ITV network being presented as thought it were a single channel called ITV1, by the time what they have done becomes generally realised it will be too late.

With ITV being presented as a single service, people are going to be less questioning about the lack of any difference between regions - why expect any when ITV looks and sounds the same wherever you go. They are allready phasing in the complete removal of the regional names from continuity - how many times do they 'forget' to bring out the regional idents before local names now?

Indeed on Westcountry (if not everywhere else?) the main regional output - local news - has allready seen the total removal of regional identity from it's link. Before every Westcountry news bulletin that has a link before it, the computer animated 'news' ident plays, followed by 'Now on ITV1, Westcountry Live/News'. No longer is 'Carlton' mentioned anywhere.

Expect to see that happen amongst all regional programming soon, and then not so long after that expect the regional programming itself to disappear alltogether. With no local presentation to create any regional identity, and no local ident/continuity announcement to highlight any regional output, people just won't notice when the regional output itself goes.

So as Mark said, having sub regional ITV idents won't make ITV regional again, but it would make it harder for them to stop it from being regional without people seeing what they are doing.

BUT that's exactly what DIDN'T happen in the truly federal ITV.

Each region only sold its own airtime space - with the early distinction of Yorkshire-Tyne Tees, which was seen as ground-breaking for the time.

This meant that each region only spent money on programmes that its own region could see or, contributed to a 'pot' of money for network productions.

When TSW sold its advertising space for Devon, Cornwall etc., they wouldn't be wasting money on programmes you couldn't see in Lancashire - Granada would be paying for that.

These days, of course, it's all changed, with everything being funded by central coffers at Granada's Grotto or Carlton's Castle, locked up behind iron portcullises, the keys to which are held by the likes only of Mr. Cadbury, Mr. Texaco, etc. The very skeleton regional 'service' that ITV 'companies' provide now is simply what they make with 'what's left over' rather than a dedicated stream of steady, if sometimes slow, regional advertising revenue.

Remember those (admittedly hideous) still slide local adverts for the Carpet Shop in your local High Street, or your local used car dealer, or such like? Yes, they may have been crude, but they earned useful pin money for regional output, and of course, some of the income from the national and multinational firms' advertising contributed a lot more to the regional funds than they do now.

By keeping things regional, NOTHING is getting wasted - each region spends according to its own means, only getting money from the 'pot' if they create something that everyone in the country will get a chance to see because the network deem it of interest to the network.

should be good.

his show on english language history was top