HA
And the BBC is a much larger organisation with a much wider portfolio of services - and that makes the cost of major brand changes massively bigger. For instance, changing the core logo (as ITV did), would require every local radio station to have new signage, every radio car to be rebranded, every stationery product to be replaced (business cards, letterhead etc.) It isn't just an on-screen graphic design cost.
(I'm not suggesting that people are saying the BBC blocks should be consigned to the dustbin - but that level of change is what ITV decided to do with their recent rebrand. Though their previous logo was horrific IMO - unlike the BBC blocks which is still proving to be a pretty strong branding device, and the recent "trinity" rebranding exercise has allowed the blocks to be used more flexibly)
I like the BBC's logo theres so much you can do to it (remembering BBC Arabic's 2008 look), it has to be said BBC First is looking good there, will it be available in Europe or just Australia?
harshy
Founding member
I think the problem with the British BBC channels (possibly minus bbc three depending on your view point) is that their branding is mostly based on trends and practices from 6-10 years ago with few updates, and those that have come along have been far worse than the original concepts imo.
An itv style refresh of all of the channels putting new uniformed guidelines into place would be the best way to fix everything, the problem is the cost that under the BBC's current scrutiny could not be justified.
However sometimes I wish that they'd save money for a larger refresh rather than making smaller updates.
An itv style refresh of all of the channels putting new uniformed guidelines into place would be the best way to fix everything, the problem is the cost that under the BBC's current scrutiny could not be justified.
However sometimes I wish that they'd save money for a larger refresh rather than making smaller updates.
And the BBC is a much larger organisation with a much wider portfolio of services - and that makes the cost of major brand changes massively bigger. For instance, changing the core logo (as ITV did), would require every local radio station to have new signage, every radio car to be rebranded, every stationery product to be replaced (business cards, letterhead etc.) It isn't just an on-screen graphic design cost.
(I'm not suggesting that people are saying the BBC blocks should be consigned to the dustbin - but that level of change is what ITV decided to do with their recent rebrand. Though their previous logo was horrific IMO - unlike the BBC blocks which is still proving to be a pretty strong branding device, and the recent "trinity" rebranding exercise has allowed the blocks to be used more flexibly)
I like the BBC's logo theres so much you can do to it (remembering BBC Arabic's 2008 look), it has to be said BBC First is looking good there, will it be available in Europe or just Australia?
NG
Not sure if it was an internal or official name - but "trinity" was the phrase I heard to use the development of the BBC blocks that allowed the logo to exist in 3D space and the three blocks to animate separately (previously the official rule was that the logo was a single, flat 2D entity and the blocks existed only as a whole. TOTP broke these rules by spinning the three blocks individually...) It introduced all sorts of 3D animation possibilities for the BBC brand - you see elements of it everywhere now.
noggin
Founding member
trinity?
Not sure if it was an internal or official name - but "trinity" was the phrase I heard to use the development of the BBC blocks that allowed the logo to exist in 3D space and the three blocks to animate separately (previously the official rule was that the logo was a single, flat 2D entity and the blocks existed only as a whole. TOTP broke these rules by spinning the three blocks individually...) It introduced all sorts of 3D animation possibilities for the BBC brand - you see elements of it everywhere now.
BR
Although arguably with no major refresh to BBC1, BBC2 and BBC4 in years they can say they've done that. Absolutely agree it needs to be a big rebrand across channels to fix everything - though I think as it's pretty safe to say the blocks will remain they can just concentrate on TV as that's where the problems are. The visual elements of the national radio channel all look absolutely fine - better than the channels designed to be seen in fact.
I think the problem with the British BBC channels (possibly minus bbc three depending on your view point) is that their branding is mostly based on trends and practices from 6-10 years ago with few updates, and those that have come along have been far worse than the original concepts imo.
An itv style refresh of all of the channels putting new uniformed guidelines into place would be the best way to fix everything, the problem is the cost that under the BBC's current scrutiny could not be justified.
However sometimes I wish that they'd save money for a larger refresh rather than making smaller updates.
An itv style refresh of all of the channels putting new uniformed guidelines into place would be the best way to fix everything, the problem is the cost that under the BBC's current scrutiny could not be justified.
However sometimes I wish that they'd save money for a larger refresh rather than making smaller updates.
Although arguably with no major refresh to BBC1, BBC2 and BBC4 in years they can say they've done that. Absolutely agree it needs to be a big rebrand across channels to fix everything - though I think as it's pretty safe to say the blocks will remain they can just concentrate on TV as that's where the problems are. The visual elements of the national radio channel all look absolutely fine - better than the channels designed to be seen in fact.
DT
I agree with you on BBC One and Two but am I the only one who thinks that the BBC Four Idents are quite good, admittedly they could add some new ones, but I think its quite a strong brand.
BBC One just gave up about 3 years ago - we didn't get an Olympic Ident or a World Cup Ident and all the special ones have been terrible like the Africa one or the 'Love' ones and furthermore the shorter cuts are a lot worse than the originals. BBC Two is definitely its worst look since the Serif Multi-colour 'TWO' and the new music just doesn't go at all, I know change is often for the better but in BBC Two's case it was never good - the Tag Idents, the recuts etc. The Personality Two and the 1991 2s were far superior.
BBC One just gave up about 3 years ago - we didn't get an Olympic Ident or a World Cup Ident and all the special ones have been terrible like the Africa one or the 'Love' ones and furthermore the shorter cuts are a lot worse than the originals. BBC Two is definitely its worst look since the Serif Multi-colour 'TWO' and the new music just doesn't go at all, I know change is often for the better but in BBC Two's case it was never good - the Tag Idents, the recuts etc. The Personality Two and the 1991 2s were far superior.
BA
Not sure if it was an internal or official name - but "trinity" was the phrase I heard to use the development of the BBC blocks that allowed the logo to exist in 3D space and the three blocks to animate separately (previously the official rule was that the logo was a single, flat 2D entity and the blocks existed only as a whole. TOTP broke these rules by spinning the three blocks individually...) It introduced all sorts of 3D animation possibilities for the BBC brand - you see elements of it everywhere now.
This still breaks cardinal "never vertically stacked" rule and looks weird to me.
http://www.designcurial.com/uploads/project/8990/images/258602/large/bbc-house.jpg
Bail
Moderator
trinity?
Not sure if it was an internal or official name - but "trinity" was the phrase I heard to use the development of the BBC blocks that allowed the logo to exist in 3D space and the three blocks to animate separately (previously the official rule was that the logo was a single, flat 2D entity and the blocks existed only as a whole. TOTP broke these rules by spinning the three blocks individually...) It introduced all sorts of 3D animation possibilities for the BBC brand - you see elements of it everywhere now.
This still breaks cardinal "never vertically stacked" rule and looks weird to me.
http://www.designcurial.com/uploads/project/8990/images/258602/large/bbc-house.jpg
SP
Is that still cardinal? They were using it stacked on billboard posters at one time
VM
It wasn't stacked vertically, it was rotated vertically:
http://hub.tv-ark.org.uk/images/bbc_northwest/bbc_nw_images/gallery/bbcnw_billboard_big.jpg
Is that still cardinal? They were using it stacked on billboard posters at one time
It wasn't stacked vertically, it was rotated vertically:
http://hub.tv-ark.org.uk/images/bbc_northwest/bbc_nw_images/gallery/bbcnw_billboard_big.jpg
MD
All brands grow and evolve over time. Breaking the rules are usually how it starts, until those rules become more flexible.
For what it's worth, I don't think the core BBC logo/brand has suffered for it (even if us pedants get heated up over it). Arguably this Tory government and the recent "scandals" have had more influence on brand perceptions within the UK.
For what it's worth, I don't think the core BBC logo/brand has suffered for it (even if us pedants get heated up over it). Arguably this Tory government and the recent "scandals" have had more influence on brand perceptions within the UK.
MD
Logos for BBC Brit and BBC Earth are confirmed now, so hopefully it wont be too long before we see some branding for them.
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/corporate/images/width/live/p0/28/7z/p0287zg3.jpg/624
http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/corporate/images/width/live/p0/28/7z/p0287zg3.jpg/624