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BBC Two rebrand development announced

Split from BBC Two rebrand (May 2012)

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JO
Jonny
Woah... It's just my opinion.

I know, it's just standard practice to fawn over the current set, you mad non-conformist. Wink

The static 3D drop shadow logo doesn't work well on screen, I'll give you that. But then its rarely seen inanimate, which is why I'm surprised to hear you felt the flat 2D version worked/looked better when it went against what the '4' was designed for (similar to the BBC2 situation now).

Each to their own.
WP
WillPS
Jonny posted:
Woah... It's just my opinion.

I know, it's just standard practice to fawn over the current set, you mad non-conformist. Wink

The static 3D drop shadow logo doesn't work well on screen, I'll give you that. But then its rarely seen inanimate, which is why I'm surprised to hear you felt the flat 2D version worked/looked better when it went against what the '4' was designed for (similar to the BBC2 situation now).

Each to their own.


I disagree that the situation is similar.

Channel 4, first ident:
http://thetvroom.com/images/pool-ex/ex-016/main-04.jpghttp://thetvroom.com/images/pool-ex/ex-016/main-05.jpg
http://thetvroom.com/images/pool-ex/ex-016/main-06.jpghttp://thetvroom.com/images/pool-ex/ex-016/main-09.jpg

BBC 2, first ident seen with present logo:
http://thetvroom.com/images/pool-0/001/main-b-14.jpghttp://thetvroom.com/images/pool-0/001/main-b-15.jpg
http://thetvroom.com/images/pool-0/001/main-b-17.jpghttp://thetvroom.com/images/pool-0/001/main-b-22.jpg

Spot the (relevant) difference.
PC
Paul Clark
Actually, I read that comment as being nothing to do with a visual similarity, but current BBC 2 & post-1996 C4 respectively being in a similar situation in their individual cases: the figures not being used for their original functions.

So it's probably not relevant to compare the two on images; I think there has been some confusion... These are two separate cases being referred to, and from two different periods - but, there is the parallel of both having been removed from the intended purpose of their numerals.

As it stands now, Channel 4 has returned to the function the '4' was designed for - utilising its 'puzzle blocks'. Whereas BBC 2 has larely been stripped of its, (as in post #36) which drew the comparison with post-96 Channel 4, as I see it. If I've called that wrong, I apologise.

Personally, I think the 2D '4' worked just as well on screen, albeit was not the focus of the action. The ident designs were kept simple and bold enough to be effective, and compared to BBC 2 (which has become so defined by a '2' as sole symbol for the best part of 40 years) I think it seemed more natural for Channel 4 to visually re-invent itself along a certain idea.

And they did that well - for the (under-rated) 1996 rebrand, the small feat was achieved of expressing exactly the same 'publisher-broadcaster' concept in the symbol really well - only it worked in a way that no longer required the animated blocks aspect of the 4.


Really? The very first batch were almost all a 2D figure on the screen - to me they always appeared as a cut piece of sheet metal; in the case of Silk under a sheet.

I'm not sure if that relates to what I was saying about the flaw of the current set - 'Paper Cut Out' was the only example where the 2 was a 'window' or hole rather than a solid object. But yes - when the camera is filming it straight-on, it is difficult to gauge the depth.

IIRC the figure in 'Paint' was a block of polystyrene, 'Sign' 2 was effectively a case to house the lights, and 'Glass' was a prism - so not 2D there. However 'Copper Cut Out', 'Blade' and 'Shadow' definitely are - it was a mixture.

I believe a Sign-style ident with the 2 shown at an angle was originally considered during the initial ideas stage, but it was rejected. It took until 1993 for symbols such as 'Dog' to try that, but the earliest stings preceded it, and they were making some good use of its properties.
JO
Jonny
Paul Clark posted:
Actually, I read that comment as being nothing to do with a visual similarity, but current BBC 2 & post-1996 C4 respectively being in a similar situation in their individual cases: the figures not being used for their original functions.

Yes, that's the point I was trying to get across, though perhaps not as well as I would have liked.

Anyway, I've found what would appear to be a rejected rebrand proposal with three ident concept stills. Two look very interesting, the other bears an unfortunate likeness to an "ITV Hearts" ident.
CH
chris
Jonny posted:
Anyway, I've found what would appear to be a rejected rebrand proposal with three ident concept stills. Two look very interesting, the other bears an unfortunate likeness to an "ITV Hearts" ident.


I really like the top two. If as you say they've been rejected, that's a real shame.
ET
ETP1 Forever
Jonny posted:
Paul Clark posted:
Actually, I read that comment as being nothing to do with a visual similarity, but current BBC 2 & post-1996 C4 respectively being in a similar situation in their individual cases: the figures not being used for their original functions.

Yes, that's the point I was trying to get across, though perhaps not as well as I would have liked.

Anyway, I've found what would appear to be a rejected rebrand proposal with three ident concept stills. Two look very interesting, the other bears an unfortunate likeness to an "ITV Hearts" ident.


Feel free to disagree, but THAT is exactly what BBC2 needs. Very reminiscent to the 91-01 idents, yet remaining modern and up to date at the same time.

Would be curious to know when this proposal was made.
WP
WillPS
xwing posted:
Jonny posted:
Paul Clark posted:
Actually, I read that comment as being nothing to do with a visual similarity, but current BBC 2 & post-1996 C4 respectively being in a similar situation in their individual cases: the figures not being used for their original functions.

Yes, that's the point I was trying to get across, though perhaps not as well as I would have liked.

Anyway, I've found what would appear to be a rejected rebrand proposal with three ident concept stills. Two look very interesting, the other bears an unfortunate likeness to an "ITV Hearts" ident.


Feel free to disagree, but THAT is exactly what BBC2 needs. Very reminiscent to the 91-01 idents, yet remaining modern and up to date at the same time.

Would be curious to know when this proposal was made.


I disagree. I think a lot of the charm is lost with the obviously CGI ones (I feel the same about the Mars ident from '97). They also seem to be deviating rather too far from the original shape in places.
CH
chris
They also seem to be deviating rather too far from the original shape in places.


Isn't that the point? If it kept to exactly the same shape then it would be just like going back to 1991. These feel fresher.
WP
WillPS
chris posted:
They also seem to be deviating rather too far from the original shape in places.


Isn't that the point? If it kept to exactly the same shape then it would be just like going back to 1991. These feel fresher.


I guess but I think you need a bit more consistency than that. Channel 4's 4s aren't always a perfect representation of the shape (see Blackpool) but I think if you actually go as far as warping the shape out of proportion there's no point in having a symbol.

EDIT : just looked again and they don't seem half as bad as I remembered them 25 mins ago.
CH
chris
chris posted:
They also seem to be deviating rather too far from the original shape in places.


Isn't that the point? If it kept to exactly the same shape then it would be just like going back to 1991. These feel fresher.


I guess but I think you need a bit more consistency than that. Channel 4's 4s aren't always a perfect representation of the shape (see Blackpool) but I think if you actually go as far as warping the shape out of proportion there's no point in having a symbol.

EDIT : just looked again and they don't seem half as bad as I remembered them 25 mins ago.


You see, I think that's where the latest Channel 4 ones have gone wrong, that it is so warped it's difficult to see. Blackpool and the aeroplanes ones are particularly poor.
CR
Critique
The pitch posted above looks quite nice, I think. There is quite a bit of deviation from the normal '2', but they look very neat. Bold, which is something BBC Two needs to pull themselves out of this mess.

I don't think the most recent set of C4 idents (Blackpool, etc), are too abstract, either. Whilst the 4 is more difficult to spot, they're still lovely, as is the branding of all Channel 4 channels at the moment. In fact, the only branding I didn't like for C4 was the one with the '4 dots'...
VM
VMPhil
Sorry this is off-topic but how weird are those Paramount Comedy idents on that website... the current Comedy Central idents and logo (in the UK) but with the Paramount wordmark and Paramount Comedy name...

http://www.jimgreenslade.com/index.php?/projects/comedy-central/

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