Love the new idents... again, the retention of the box is a little odd, but it does look good in its new colour, I prefer the new typeface and the transparency of it. I would hope/guess that the other channels (Three and Four) will move away from boxed logos, because if any of the channels had to keep a box, I think it looks better on Two, and isolates the channel name from getting too involved in actual action of the ident... especially in something that looks to be as busy as the surfbreaker sequence.
his probably isn't going to go down well but I prefer the the old yellow twos. I found them more inviting, fun and warm. Maybe I'll change my mind when I see them moving with music.
Come to think of it, this new 'window on the world' theme means the idents could well be adapted to become trailer endboards. For example, the reflection in Mirror could be replaced by the image, and at the logo's formup the "Programme Name/Time and Date" caption appears. It would mean we didn't have to see the box throughout the trailer...
You will notice that the new 2 is slightly thinner than the old 2 but I think in Seascape it is purely done for effect as a perfect 2 would look will, too perfect.
You don't seem to have compared an image of the Tent '2' to the original, which is definitely thicker overall at top and base, rather than thinner -- is this inconsistency across idents deliberate? It does seem downright sloppy - that we now have at least 3 rather different-looking 2's. Talk about not being able to make their mind up!
Did the Channel 4 blocks keep changing height and thickness from ident to ident? No. Did the Balloon change its form across idents? No, and neither did the shape of the '2' until now, so I don't think this can be considered normal practice.
Quote:
Tent would have been impossible to get it exactly right without it looking wrong.
While I understand having all forms of the '2' down to the very last detail be identical and perfect is impossible, I find that claim a bit bemusing, considering there's another 2-shaped hole in this very same set (in Chase) that looks like it's been cut a bit more accurately, probably the nearest to the original '2' of the new lot, so I don't think there's any substance in what you've said there, and the evidence of the myriad of other sequences since 1991 would go against that too.
It's not about forming a perfect '2' every time, it's about ensuring it still resembles the '2' that we know, closely enough - and I believe it doesn't succeed there.
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I think the Mirror is just shown at angle so does not look completely right.
And the other 4, Sunroof, Chase, Zoetrope and Cappucino are bang on perfect.
I think we are getting our knickers in a twist because we've been used to CG and consequently perfect dimensions for 5 years now. Trust me, these idents will be more realistic as they look homemade which is usually more 'friendly' than CG. And we wont really see the idents properly until we see the video which will make or break them.
EDIT:
Looking at my comparison again, its barely noticeable! Why are we so worried?
I think for me it's a question of, "if I was seeing them for the first time without a logo, not knowing what channel they represented, would I be 100% sure they were BBC 2 Idents?"
From what I've seen in the case of idents like Seascape and Mirror I would say, No. OK, so you might ask, why? Because in those cases it just doesn't look like *the* famous '2' anymore.
And when such a well-known symbol as the '2' is suddenly sometimes difficult to recognise on it's own, because it's no longer the same distinctive shape as it has been for ages, in terms of brand recognition it's quite an oversight and a step back; that surprises me.
And if the numeral keeps changing shape, how are we supposed to know which is the definitive version?
This has broken a tradition of sorts which Lambie-Nairn kept of having all the 2's consistent and recognisable across the board, no matter what they were being made from, which has failed to be done here for whatever reason. There's no excuse for this 'shape-shifting', because it improves nothing; instead it weakens the brand after such a long period of consistency and familiarity, and that's a shame.
I wasn't sure at first, but I think now that the new '2' in general has been tweaked intentionally from Lambie-Nairn's version:
Compared to the old ones, all of the 2's in the 7 new idents have an inside curve that goes in and upward too much (take an original '2' and mirror it to form a heart shape in the centre, then do the same with one from these idents and you should see the difference). This might seem like unnecessary analysis, but it's safe to assume from this that they decided to base the new '2' shapes on, but not directly copy, L-N's '2' for the new set, because
none
of the old idents share this change whereas
all
of the new ones do.
But then it wasn't broke in the first place, so there was no point in trying to 'fix' it. A fruitless move IMO. If they wanted to change it, they should've either done so entirely or just leave it alone.
That's my pseudo-rant over for now methinks Now, if the current / old shape '2' appears on the new website or trails, that'll confuse me!
All that aside, fingers crossed these ident sequences will be good; I do like some of the ideas, although it would be great if this set was still added to occasionally, as 7 core scenarios doesn't seem that much. Won't be long until we see how it all pans out. As has been said it's still very much make-or-break depending on execution and soundtracks.
You are mental! I'm sorry, but how is it 'downright sloppy'?
No-one flippin cares if they're not perfect, as you blatantly want them to be. No-one will even notice. I can't see any difference even though you've all tried to point it out.
In Steam, the top vertex of the head is pointed. In Powder, the same vertex is curved. And I can spot slight proportion oddities in the old idents. But that's something that's just going to happen if the 2 is real.
And I see no problem with a little variation. Look at Optics - that never got the 2 in exactly the right shape, but it was in
almost
the right shape.
Balloon looked slightly different, and look at the 2 in excalibur! It's a lot thinner. Same with water reflection and shadow. It's always been like that, nothing to get worried about
In Steam, the top vertex of the head is pointed. In Powder, the same vertex is curved. And I can spot slight proportion oddities in the old idents. But that's something that's just going to happen if the 2 is real.
And I see no problem with a little variation. Look at Optics - that never got the 2 in exactly the right shape, but it was in
almost
the right shape.
You're exactly right there, but I feel you've missed the point by quite a bit. I've always been aware there was a slight difference among the originals including the static / solid 2's and I never have disputed that. Your response has pointed out something I already knew, but let's put that aside.
I'm simply saying, and would you not agree, that the differences between the old '2' (let's take Steam for example) and the new '2' (Mirror for example), are generally a lot greater than the changes among strictly the old 2's, as are the changes from ident to ident in the
new
set, in comparision to the old ones which, while not identical as you and I have said, were overally more consistent?
I do think it's quite apparent and visible at first glance (for example, side by side, Seascape and Mirror are two very different instances of the '2') which I'm sure you yourself can spot instantly, having already given a solid explanation of the subtle difference in the Powder and Steam 2's -- it is just that it seems like some people are perhaps appearing to overlook how much it has changed in comparison to 91 - 01 when any differences were actually
much
less, and not deliberate, as some of these could well be; perhaps we will find out in the near future, if an article gives us a bit more insight. Hope that clears things up.
Now, if the current / old shape '2' appears on the new website or trails, that'll confuse me!
