JO
I can imagine Vicky Pollard saying that.
But I do agree with you. It actually feels a bit tacky to me
djmgpsp posted:
This is very off-topic. I KNOW but why now are Channel F.O.U.R. putting 4 in front of everything like 4 Creative, Music, Games soon it will be:
4 Drunks
4 Sad people who watch 24/7 Big Brother
4 Mentaly unstable people
Stop it it drives me MAD
4 Drunks
4 Sad people who watch 24/7 Big Brother
4 Mentaly unstable people
Stop it it drives me MAD
I can imagine Vicky Pollard saying that.
But I do agree with you. It actually feels a bit tacky to me
PC
Why on earth did you pick a BBC TWO topic to put this Channel 4-related rant in?
Swiftly back on-topic, then...
The BBC TWO Menus which continue the themes of the idents and are based on them: I see these on BBC TWO NI now and again, some of them are brilliant, but why have I not seen these for a long time on Network (aside from a still Bounce Menu that includes pictures next to the listings IIRC)? Were they dropped for a particular reason?
I don't understand why this nice range of menus, some animated and with the relevant audio, would be created, only for them to be rarely seen if at all (on Network) -- if these different themes were still in full use there nowadays, it would allow for that extra bit of variety and substance.
djmgpsp posted:
This is very off-topic. I KNOW but why now are Channel F.O.U.R. putting 4 in front of everything like 4 Creative, Music, Games soon it will be:
4 Drunks
4 Sad people who watch 24/7 Big Brother
4 Mentaly unstable people
Stop it it drives me MAD
4 Drunks
4 Sad people who watch 24/7 Big Brother
4 Mentaly unstable people
Stop it it drives me MAD
Why on earth did you pick a BBC TWO topic to put this Channel 4-related rant in?
Swiftly back on-topic, then...
The BBC TWO Menus which continue the themes of the idents and are based on them: I see these on BBC TWO NI now and again, some of them are brilliant, but why have I not seen these for a long time on Network (aside from a still Bounce Menu that includes pictures next to the listings IIRC)? Were they dropped for a particular reason?
I don't understand why this nice range of menus, some animated and with the relevant audio, would be created, only for them to be rarely seen if at all (on Network) -- if these different themes were still in full use there nowadays, it would allow for that extra bit of variety and substance.
R2
The BBC TWO Menus which continue the themes of the idents and are based on them: I see these on BBC TWO NI now and again, some of them are brilliant, but why have I not seen these for a long time on Network (aside from a still Bounce Menu that includes pictures next to the listings IIRC)? Were they dropped for a particular reason?
I don't understand why this nice range of menus, some animated and with the relevant audio, would be created, only for them to be rarely seen if at all (on Network) -- if these different themes were still in full use there nowadays, it would allow for that extra bit of variety and substance.
I think they all disappeared when the new style menus (2Night, 2Suggests etc.) were rolled out bar the still Bounce menu that you mention; I normally see that one, if ever, before the afternoon programming at 15.30. I remember before the new menus seeing an unanimated menu based on Formation (at 15.30) and vaguely remember seeing one with Fire at some point.
I do agree that they should have been used more as they are a nice piece of presentation, especially when it has matching music that then leads into the same ident - one I saw on NI was a menu based on Domino then the menu disappeared and Domino Long played out. It is a shame that they have pretty much gone.
This reminds me of another piece of presentation that BBC Two has and almost never uses: the stings. They are rarely used at Christmas and have popped up once or twice at prime time and again these looked good because they were different and broke up the junction a bit, even if it was just the Two breathing on the screen (Screen Clean) or blowing bubbles (Fish). I suppose there is no real need for stings but they do look good and if they can be used on BBC One at Christmas then one would expect stings to be used at other times.
It will be interesting to see whether we have stings in the new package or if the 2Night, 2Suggests etc. continues as well.
Paul Clark posted:
The BBC TWO Menus which continue the themes of the idents and are based on them: I see these on BBC TWO NI now and again, some of them are brilliant, but why have I not seen these for a long time on Network (aside from a still Bounce Menu that includes pictures next to the listings IIRC)? Were they dropped for a particular reason?
I don't understand why this nice range of menus, some animated and with the relevant audio, would be created, only for them to be rarely seen if at all (on Network) -- if these different themes were still in full use there nowadays, it would allow for that extra bit of variety and substance.
I think they all disappeared when the new style menus (2Night, 2Suggests etc.) were rolled out bar the still Bounce menu that you mention; I normally see that one, if ever, before the afternoon programming at 15.30. I remember before the new menus seeing an unanimated menu based on Formation (at 15.30) and vaguely remember seeing one with Fire at some point.
I do agree that they should have been used more as they are a nice piece of presentation, especially when it has matching music that then leads into the same ident - one I saw on NI was a menu based on Domino then the menu disappeared and Domino Long played out. It is a shame that they have pretty much gone.
This reminds me of another piece of presentation that BBC Two has and almost never uses: the stings. They are rarely used at Christmas and have popped up once or twice at prime time and again these looked good because they were different and broke up the junction a bit, even if it was just the Two breathing on the screen (Screen Clean) or blowing bubbles (Fish). I suppose there is no real need for stings but they do look good and if they can be used on BBC One at Christmas then one would expect stings to be used at other times.
It will be interesting to see whether we have stings in the new package or if the 2Night, 2Suggests etc. continues as well.
DE
I personally prefer the longer playouts as normally there is quite a good anno to accompany it, though saying that sometimes I have heard announcers babble on long playouts.
Yes... there would perhaps be less need for babble if network BBC 2 made more use of the LONG versions of the BBC 2 symbols... and let the animation of the symbol eat up the time. However, the majority of symbols used on network BBC 2 are the SHORT versions. Not sure if it's a deliberate policy or not.
r2ro posted:
I personally prefer the longer playouts as normally there is quite a good anno to accompany it, though saying that sometimes I have heard announcers babble on long playouts.
Yes... there would perhaps be less need for babble if network BBC 2 made more use of the LONG versions of the BBC 2 symbols... and let the animation of the symbol eat up the time. However, the majority of symbols used on network BBC 2 are the SHORT versions. Not sure if it's a deliberate policy or not.
DE
I do agree that they should have been used more as they are a nice piece of presentation, especially when it has matching music that then leads into the same ident - one I saw on NI was a menu based on Domino then the menu disappeared and Domino Long played out. It is a shame that they have pretty much gone.
You should have been watching analogue BBC 2 Northern Ireland last night (difficult I know if you don't live in Northern Ireland). We had one menu with a moving bubbles background and music, and two of the menu/symbols you describe (one for Invisible Walls and the other for Domino). I agree, they are a nice bit of Pres... they just take a bit of effort to put together. I think London have forgotten they exist.
r2ro posted:
I do agree that they should have been used more as they are a nice piece of presentation, especially when it has matching music that then leads into the same ident - one I saw on NI was a menu based on Domino then the menu disappeared and Domino Long played out. It is a shame that they have pretty much gone.
You should have been watching analogue BBC 2 Northern Ireland last night (difficult I know if you don't live in Northern Ireland). We had one menu with a moving bubbles background and music, and two of the menu/symbols you describe (one for Invisible Walls and the other for Domino). I agree, they are a nice bit of Pres... they just take a bit of effort to put together. I think London have forgotten they exist.
R2
I personally prefer the longer playouts as normally there is quite a good anno to accompany it, though saying that sometimes I have heard announcers babble on long playouts.
Yes... there would perhaps be less need for babble if network BBC 2 made more use of the LONG versions of the BBC 2 symbols... and let the animation of the symbol eat up the time. However, the majority of symbols used on network BBC 2 are the SHORT versions. Not sure if it's a deliberate policy or not.
I'm sure it must be deliberate as almost always we only see the short versions bar Drum and Self Portrait, which are always long. It would be nice for them to use the others as a bit of variety, especially if they have got time to fill.
You should have been watching analogue BBC 2 Northern Ireland last night (difficult I know if you don't live in Northern Ireland). We had one menu with a moving bubbles background and music, and two of the menu/symbols you describe (one for Invisible Walls and the other for Domino). I agree, they are a nice bit of Pres... they just take a bit of effort to put together. I think London have forgotten they exist.
I never realised that they took significant amounts of time to put together but I suppose that this would explain the lack of use elsewhere across the nations, especially on network.
Two questions: Firstly, you mention that there was a menu based on Invisible Walls. Is there any chance of a clip or a description please as I think that is one of the best idents and was wondering if the menu worked to the same effectiveness?
Secondly I was wondering if NI digital uses the menus as often or is it mainly NI analogue?
denton posted:
r2ro posted:
I personally prefer the longer playouts as normally there is quite a good anno to accompany it, though saying that sometimes I have heard announcers babble on long playouts.
Yes... there would perhaps be less need for babble if network BBC 2 made more use of the LONG versions of the BBC 2 symbols... and let the animation of the symbol eat up the time. However, the majority of symbols used on network BBC 2 are the SHORT versions. Not sure if it's a deliberate policy or not.
I'm sure it must be deliberate as almost always we only see the short versions bar Drum and Self Portrait, which are always long. It would be nice for them to use the others as a bit of variety, especially if they have got time to fill.
denton posted:
You should have been watching analogue BBC 2 Northern Ireland last night (difficult I know if you don't live in Northern Ireland). We had one menu with a moving bubbles background and music, and two of the menu/symbols you describe (one for Invisible Walls and the other for Domino). I agree, they are a nice bit of Pres... they just take a bit of effort to put together. I think London have forgotten they exist.
I never realised that they took significant amounts of time to put together but I suppose that this would explain the lack of use elsewhere across the nations, especially on network.
Two questions: Firstly, you mention that there was a menu based on Invisible Walls. Is there any chance of a clip or a description please as I think that is one of the best idents and was wondering if the menu worked to the same effectiveness?
Secondly I was wondering if NI digital uses the menus as often or is it mainly NI analogue?
PC
I personally prefer the longer playouts as normally there is quite a good anno to accompany it, though saying that sometimes I have heard announcers babble on long playouts.
Yes... there would perhaps be less need for babble if network BBC 2 made more use of the LONG versions of the BBC 2 symbols... and let the animation of the symbol eat up the time. However, the majority of symbols used on network BBC 2 are the SHORT versions. Not sure if it's a deliberate policy or not.
I'm sure it must be deliberate as almost always we only see the short versions bar Drum and Self Portrait, which are always long. It would be nice for them to use the others as a bit of variety, especially if they have got time to fill.
You should have been watching analogue BBC 2 Northern Ireland last night (difficult I know if you don't live in Northern Ireland). We had one menu with a moving bubbles background and music, and two of the menu/symbols you describe (one for Invisible Walls and the other for Domino). I agree, they are a nice bit of Pres... they just take a bit of effort to put together. I think London have forgotten they exist.
I never realised that they took significant amounts of time to put together but I suppose that this would explain the lack of use elsewhere across the nations, especially on network.
Two questions: Firstly, you mention that there was a menu based on Invisible Walls. Is there any chance of a clip or a description please as I think that is one of the best idents and was wondering if the menu worked to the same effectiveness?
Secondly I was wondering if NI digital uses the menus as often or is it mainly NI analogue?
I have also not seen this Invisible Walls menu! It'd appreciate a clip, if anyone has one.
Last night I did turn over to BBC TWO NI for a while (digital, not analogue), and saw the 'bubbles' menu you mentioned (based on Fish and with a similar soundtrack), plus a still menu before that, based on Causeway.
r2ro posted:
denton posted:
r2ro posted:
I personally prefer the longer playouts as normally there is quite a good anno to accompany it, though saying that sometimes I have heard announcers babble on long playouts.
Yes... there would perhaps be less need for babble if network BBC 2 made more use of the LONG versions of the BBC 2 symbols... and let the animation of the symbol eat up the time. However, the majority of symbols used on network BBC 2 are the SHORT versions. Not sure if it's a deliberate policy or not.
I'm sure it must be deliberate as almost always we only see the short versions bar Drum and Self Portrait, which are always long. It would be nice for them to use the others as a bit of variety, especially if they have got time to fill.
denton posted:
You should have been watching analogue BBC 2 Northern Ireland last night (difficult I know if you don't live in Northern Ireland). We had one menu with a moving bubbles background and music, and two of the menu/symbols you describe (one for Invisible Walls and the other for Domino). I agree, they are a nice bit of Pres... they just take a bit of effort to put together. I think London have forgotten they exist.
I never realised that they took significant amounts of time to put together but I suppose that this would explain the lack of use elsewhere across the nations, especially on network.
Two questions: Firstly, you mention that there was a menu based on Invisible Walls. Is there any chance of a clip or a description please as I think that is one of the best idents and was wondering if the menu worked to the same effectiveness?
Secondly I was wondering if NI digital uses the menus as often or is it mainly NI analogue?
I have also not seen this Invisible Walls menu! It'd appreciate a clip, if anyone has one.
Last night I did turn over to BBC TWO NI for a while (digital, not analogue), and saw the 'bubbles' menu you mentioned (based on Fish and with a similar soundtrack), plus a still menu before that, based on Causeway.
DE
I never realised that they took significant amounts of time to put together but I suppose that this would explain the lack of use elsewhere across the nations, especially on network.
You can key the Aston on and off live while the menu/symbol is played out... but it is rather tricky doing that while dipping audio and speaking at the same time. You get a better result by making it before transmission.
Two questions: Firstly, you mention that there was a menu based on Invisible Walls. Is there any chance of a clip or a description please as I think that is one of the best idents and was wondering if the menu worked to the same effectiveness?
You have 20 secs of a still of the 2 above the BBC TWO box with music... then as the menu fades out the 2 moves to centre screen and the symbol continues as normal.
There is another version for use on moving menus (not menu/symbols) which is basically the invisible walls 2 animation squeezed to top right of screen... it moves for a few seconds then stops and the music continues for the duration of the menu.
There are a few others of these, apart from Walls and Domino, which have been used on air before.
Secondly I was wondering if NI digital uses the menus as often or is it mainly NI analogue?
It all just depends upon the demands of the schedule and the director/announcer on duty.
r2ro posted:
I never realised that they took significant amounts of time to put together but I suppose that this would explain the lack of use elsewhere across the nations, especially on network.
You can key the Aston on and off live while the menu/symbol is played out... but it is rather tricky doing that while dipping audio and speaking at the same time. You get a better result by making it before transmission.
r2ro posted:
Two questions: Firstly, you mention that there was a menu based on Invisible Walls. Is there any chance of a clip or a description please as I think that is one of the best idents and was wondering if the menu worked to the same effectiveness?
You have 20 secs of a still of the 2 above the BBC TWO box with music... then as the menu fades out the 2 moves to centre screen and the symbol continues as normal.
There is another version for use on moving menus (not menu/symbols) which is basically the invisible walls 2 animation squeezed to top right of screen... it moves for a few seconds then stops and the music continues for the duration of the menu.
There are a few others of these, apart from Walls and Domino, which have been used on air before.
r2ro posted:
Secondly I was wondering if NI digital uses the menus as often or is it mainly NI analogue?
It all just depends upon the demands of the schedule and the director/announcer on duty.
PC
1:20am; BBC TWO NI about to hand over to N24. The final trail (Dragon's Den) reaches the end and then fades into the end of the Blizzard trail ...then suddenly cut to black.
Promptly, this fades into the Bounce Sombre ident -- but oddly, it has the Network's semi-transparent logo instead of the usual full opacity. Paul Reid acknowledges the hiccup in his announcement, before bidding us goodnight.
RM; 1.9 MB
Promptly, this fades into the Bounce Sombre ident -- but oddly, it has the Network's semi-transparent logo instead of the usual full opacity. Paul Reid acknowledges the hiccup in his announcement, before bidding us goodnight.
RM; 1.9 MB
DE
Thanks for posting that
Paul Clark posted:
1:20am; BBC TWO NI about to hand over to N24. The final trail (Dragon's Den) reaches the end and then fades into the end of the Blizzard trail ...then suddenly cut to black.
Promptly, this fades into the Bounce Sombre ident -- but oddly, it has the Network's semi-transparent logo instead of the usual full opacity. Paul Reid acknowledges the hiccup in his announcement, before bidding us goodnight.
RM; 1.9 MB
Promptly, this fades into the Bounce Sombre ident -- but oddly, it has the Network's semi-transparent logo instead of the usual full opacity. Paul Reid acknowledges the hiccup in his announcement, before bidding us goodnight.
RM; 1.9 MB
Thanks for posting that
R2
Thanks for posting that
The thing I like about that particular continuity is that they let the symbol play out in full even though the announcement had finished six seconds earlier, something which on network would be incredibly rare to see. I think there should be this flexibility especially at times that are not watched by many; TBH I have been rather disappointed with the length and variety of idents used ahead of Ceefax AM as on the whole they tend to be the usual short versions that are always used on network, none at a particularly special length either other than Formation Short and Domino Short in full one morning and Invisible Walls to 24 seconds on another.
Edit: Just noticed that there is a Ceefax tonight at 01.30-02.00: hopefully there will be a good ident with it not being a regular Ceefax slot.
denton posted:
Paul Clark posted:
1:20am; BBC TWO NI about to hand over to N24. The final trail (Dragon's Den) reaches the end and then fades into the end of the Blizzard trail ...then suddenly cut to black.
Promptly, this fades into the Bounce Sombre ident -- but oddly, it has the Network's semi-transparent logo instead of the usual full opacity. Paul Reid acknowledges the hiccup in his announcement, before bidding us goodnight.
RM; 1.9 MB
Promptly, this fades into the Bounce Sombre ident -- but oddly, it has the Network's semi-transparent logo instead of the usual full opacity. Paul Reid acknowledges the hiccup in his announcement, before bidding us goodnight.
RM; 1.9 MB
Thanks for posting that
The thing I like about that particular continuity is that they let the symbol play out in full even though the announcement had finished six seconds earlier, something which on network would be incredibly rare to see. I think there should be this flexibility especially at times that are not watched by many; TBH I have been rather disappointed with the length and variety of idents used ahead of Ceefax AM as on the whole they tend to be the usual short versions that are always used on network, none at a particularly special length either other than Formation Short and Domino Short in full one morning and Invisible Walls to 24 seconds on another.
Edit: Just noticed that there is a Ceefax tonight at 01.30-02.00: hopefully there will be a good ident with it not being a regular Ceefax slot.