BBC Two: new idents from Sunday 18 February

That's becoming increasingly difficult to do in this age of branding. Nobody's expecting BBC2 to bring back old idents, but they can certainly look to the past for inspiration, as Channel 4 have done.

The compentency of BBDO is not in question; their "Rush Hour" promo for BBC1 seems to be the only part of the current package anyone liked. But why does an ad agency have to be involved with this sort of thing in the first place? When the idents get their press launch, and whether they're good or not, certain newspapers will seize on the fact and raise questions about how licence payers' money is being spent. Perhaps more ferociously than in the past, since this is the first time an ad agency has been used. It is hard not to be sympathetic to this viewpoint.



I've read the press release on The Moving Picture Company's site. The involvement of a specialist SFX company is nothing new where idents are concerned; do a web search and you'll be surprised what turns up in relation to BBC promotional activities.



I sincerely hope it does. Proof of the pudding and all that...

It's just a shame the BBC go down this route. They make some of the world's best television yet cannot create their own on-screen looks - ironic really.

At least Lambie-Nairn know what they're doing (most of the time) simply because Martin's background was in television graphics; no wonder then he has come up with some of the best-known television identities. If BBC2 carries on with the 2, here's hoping, Lambie-Nairn would be the best people to take their creation further.

I'm actually pleasantly surprised that an advertising agency has been given the task. There are some fantastic pieces of advertising around, and I often look at them and think that similar ideas could work fantastically as part of a channel's identity. I personally think that an ad agency might be able to bring a new direction and vibrancy to ident/presentation design, which a traditional branding company might not.

If you look at the types of presentation we're getting from the likes of Red Bee and Lambie-Nairn - it's all much of a muchness at the moment. It almost seems to be stuck in a rut. Yes, there are exceptions, but I'd say that current top-notch advertising seems to be much more diverse and willing to try new things than channel presentation has been for a few years. I'm very hopeful about this development.

Without wishing to sound like I'm stuck in the past, I hope the new BBC2 idents have variance in the colours of the number 2 and the background.

This white/silver 2 and yellow background is dull and doesn't exactly leave much scope for creativity.

I think the only "new 2" I have thought was touched by a certain genius is the Morris Dancing one.

If they could get rid of the boxes and replace it with the old centralised type logos, that would also be appreciated.

I don't understand why there is a big fuss about an ad Agency taking on the job. Lambie Nairn have done advertising and there isn't much difference between brand agencies and ad agencies.

They should be able to come up with someone that's not only good at the job in hand but also sticks in peoples minds as with the best/most annoying adverts. I think it would be great to see BBC2 doing the Shake n Vac for instance

What really concerns me right now is the fact BBC2 is still stuck in a vortex programming wise. When Digital Switch Off happens, they'll eventually loose the Children's programmes, as will BBC1 meaning BBC2 will loose its afternoon programmes and what will be left for the schedule then with all the 'big' sporting events on BBC1?

BBC Two will most probably remain showing Schools programmes in the afternoons, as it is a resource used by teachers, in the same way channel 4 show schools programmes.

If we take the channel 4 idea, the brand could use fixed colours for the bumpers, and trails, with idents in a full range of colours. I would like to see the colour scheme remain but used in a more interesting way for the trails, bumpers, junctions, menus, etc, and perhaps use the colours subtly in the idents. the previous BBC Two idents at the start all used the Teal colour, and as time went on they drifted away, however the break bumpers never had a set colour scheme.

Just a couple of small points here.

Advertising is all about getting your product and logo noticed by as many people as possible and keep them noticing the product and logo.

The appointed ad agency will do a lot of market research, and when they ask a cross section of the British public apart from a programme name, what is the first thing they think of when you say BBC Two - then the answer will be an overwhelming 'the Two symbol' doing different things.

Do you think any appointed agency (plus of course the BBC which holds the final veto on these matters) would ditch that kind of logo and brand awareness with the British public?

Now, you could say well BBC One got rid of the globe - but that was slightly different. The Globe/world had different forms over it's on screen life. The BBC 'Two' has pretty much stayed the same in it's concept and execution which would make it difficult to bin on a rebranding whim.

4Creative was one of several agencies that brought forward their ideas for the new Channel 4 look. It was chosen simply because it was the best.

When the balloon started, my mum really liked it, but didn't recognise (until I told her) that it was an image of a globe on it; so she wasn't sad about the globe going when the dancers came in, she was more sorry to see the balloon go.

Whereas with the "2", I think my mum would be sad to see it go, because it was and still is more recognisable than the globe was.

I'd like to see a channel's idents given over to a series of music video directors. Good ones, anyway. They often seem to have more creativity in them than traditional ident-makers.

Reading what I said back, I was well moody and can only blame this squarely on Christiano Ronaldo. I will clarify the points I was making.

You make the point that people will pick up on the spending of licence payers' money on an advertising agency to create idents. Yes, they will. This is because people read the Daily Mail and believe the simplified, exaggerated rubbish they read about such things. And I would suggest that your post was very Daily Mail-esque.

The fact is that a variety of agencies will always compete for proposals, and the best one wins out. Simple as that. In this case, AMV BBDO. And good for them I say. Now I know you already know this, so why the needless comment about Channel 4 coming up with the idea inhouse? You have just said that you know many companies were involved in their idents, so what point are you making? I was pointing out that Channel 4 didn't make their own idents during the lunch break - they followed the same process of competing proposals, of which they were a party, and used a wide variety of people to come up with the goods. So there really is little difference to the BBC Two situation, though your Daily Mail style infers otherwise.

The second point you made was that an advertising agency winning out is worrying. My (rather forceful) reply was - why? What's the reason for your worry? I pretty much agree with Benjy's comments earlier: surely an advertising agency is better because they have that edge of selling something with style. Which, to all intents and purposes, is the whole point of an ident. And I'm pretty excited (well, as excited as I can get about a set of idents) about what they can come up with, especially considering their incredible portfolio and the history of BBC Two presentation thus far.

I would suggest that you, Simon, are running scared of the ad agency without good cause, simply because it's DER DER DERRRR... an advertising agency. What I'm saying is let's wait and see before you shoot them down - which, of course, you WILL do - and join the Daily Mail in criticising the BBC for spending its cash. After all, if the BBC did resist hiring the best proposal, the presentation would ultimately suffer and you would complain about that instead.

Finally, you make the point that it is sad the BBC are going down the route of hiring an ad agency and not being able to do it themselves. Again, I think that's a silly comment to make. As you already know, the BBC commission agencies such as AMV BBDO and many others even to create trailers for particular programmes, alongside its own stuff and that of other agencies. Yet you argue an ad agency shouldn't be creating arguably the most important aspect of presentation, the set of idents. Your spin is inaccurate. You know as well as I do the standard of the BBC's own creative team. But that doesn't mean it should be used for anything and everything.

music videos are generally on air for a much shorter time than Idents, so such bold creative flair as done by Chris Cunningham for instance, would wain and become normal if used for an ident package i guess.

Yep, I'd agree with that, and it would be a shame to have something like Chris Cunningham's work become 'everyday'.