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BBC THREE versus BBC SCOTLAND

Is it time for the BBC to make a really tough decision?

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UN
Universal_r
Kunst posted:
I’ve never understood why people want a ‘Scottish six’, we have reporting Scotland which is the same length as the six.
Maybe I’m missing something completely obvious but the news at 6 covers National and international news and if the programme was just geared towards Scotland, surely it wouldn’t be in a great position to cover international news effectively.

Nationalism and a form of "tribalism"

I have no desire to engage in these discussions any more, its one of the reasons I quit the forum in 2014.

The Six O'Clock news has a global brief and a national one. A Scottish Six would naturally take the same approach. Its not some silly notion to add a "hoots mon" to a story about polar ice caps.

Minimally 50% of the main evening news is a domestic agenda, and while there is plenty of crossover with pan-UK relevant items, there is a slew of political stories, health, education and legal items that do not relate to a Scots audience, being as we have our own governments, systems and results. Reporting Scotland should be a magazine programme. I expect to see the main items of the day for Scotland in the main news of the day.

'Nationalism and tribalism' is trolling, sir, and its not appreciated.

But many things in the national news won’t affect certain parts of England or Wales or Northern Ireland. That’s exactly why we have regional news. If people want their Scottish news at 6 o’clock, itv has the regional news on at 6.
Alfie Mulcahy and Roger Darthwell gave kudos
KU
Kunst
I'm not trolling in any way, it's a sense of nationalism, which is just current in any nation, not just Scotland

Let's be serious, there was no need for an additional 1-hr long bulletin at 9pm, especially since BBC One already caters that, except for feeling the need to cater a particular audience, who might feel disassociated with pan-national news on BBC One Scotland

It's a controversial opinion, I know
KU
Kunst
But I'll be honest, I wasn't talking so much about a possible 1 hour 6pm bulletin oN BBC One, but The Nine on BBC Scotland, and possibly BBC Scotland in general
GS
Gavin Scott Founding member
I appreciate the clarification. I hear what you're saying, but Scotland and Wales are not regions, we are nations. And its not a matter of heady pride to point it out, its just a fact that creates a complication for a broadcaster who can often announce headlines such as, "Exam chaos for students across the country as students await their A Level results".

Scotland doesn't get its exam results when England do. We don't even have A Levels. And our University admissions system is different. But annually we will have the first 8 minutes of our main evening news (the most watched broadcast) running reports and interviewing kids and parents. It might seem trivial reading this one benign example, but if you lived here every day and could generally find an example in every broadcast that was irrelevant (as much as news can be), after 30 years you might, like me, ask why we can't just have our own Six O'Clock News.

Technically it can be done. The cost is negligible. It would just give the Scots audience a main evening bulletin that was more appropriate. Reporting Scotland should be the programme to deal with the less profound items and perhaps the more parochial. After all, the regions of England get a magazine show with garden fetes and local panto celebs. I think a nation might be afforded some lighter relief at 6.30 after a proper news programme.
RD
Roger Darthwell
Hello there. Long time no see.

The BBC Scotland channel was set up to fail, and its achieving it's ambition. For many years there were demands in Scotland from both the public and cross-party politicians that BBC Scotland should produce a "Scottish Six", distinct from the Network programme, to better reflect the editorial differences in this country.

Sometimes that would be as subtle as a change in the running order, sometimes it would mean not broadcasting items about education, heath or other devolved matters, where we currently have them presented as if they apply to us, usually with no caveat.

I don't know whether I'm allowed to reveal this, but there was a six week pilot of a BBC Scotland Six O'Clock News, which was produced live but not broadcast. It allowed them to try to juggle with correspondents doing two-ways into their packages within minutes of having presented them to network. It was a triumph of modern news production: that all the outside sources, VTs and scripts are there to be edited and restacked to better fit the audience.

BUT - London didn't want to rubber stamp the project, presumably under pressure from the Westminster government that it might be seen as the thin end of the wedge and encourage the breakup of the UK. So it was quietly dumped and never spoken of.

Even so, the demand was still there from outwith the BBC, and so, to quell the storm, one day we are told we are getting a shortbread tin channel of "Scottish interest" which, at best, will be used to premiere continuing drama and comedy ahead of a BBC 1 Scotland airing. And it will be on channel twelvty-nine-hundred on the digibox where you will never see it on an EPG.

Literally nobody asked for this, and nobody wanted it. I did send an audition reel to get the continuity announcer job, but you can't blame me for having childhood ambitions.

Its creation ripped budgets away from other production at Pacific Quay, but it wasn't enough money to make anything decent with, so everyone suffered. It was created to fail so that the chiefs in London can say, "why are you demanding a news programme, we gave you a whole channel and you didn't watch it". Its as calculated as that.

Get rid of it and reinstate BBC 2 Scotland. And BBC Three if you like - whatever - I cut my cable years ago.

One final point - and thanks for reading if indeed you have - there's some suggestion that money spent by the BBC in Scotland would be poorly spent if we managed to gain independence. Scottish BBC licence payers contributed £324 million last year but only £223 million of that was spent here - so you could certainly make the argument that Pacific Quay is bought and paid for by the Scottish fee payer. But lets not bother.

See you in another 3 years. x

I really appreciate your thoughts Sir, Thank you!
GS
Gavin Scott Founding member
After I posted I discovered and read many of yours which very eloquently laid out some similar conclusions.

Very good to meet you.
UN
Universal_r
I’m really not trying to be petty here but viewers in England had to sit and listen to the main story of the Scottish exams cock up. Because of us not getting our results at the same time it means they can both be covered effectively.
Alfie Mulcahy and Roger Darthwell gave kudos
BR
Brekkie
I think part of the problem with BBC Scotland is much of the national spending seems to be shows shipped up to Glasgow after being created in England, mainly quiz shows and previously Saturday morning shows moved up for the summer as what appears to be a quota ticking exercise.

BBC Wales seemed to get the better end of the deal with a drama hub at Roath Lock, and a few breakout local dramas which are of a pretty high quality, whilst Scotland uses a soap, the cheaper end of the market, to tick that box.

I do think nowadays people prefer quality over quantity - and a dedicated channel will always be about quantity.
Rexogamer, Alfie Mulcahy and Roger Darthwell gave kudos
RD
Roger Darthwell
After I posted I discovered and read many of yours which very eloquently laid out some similar conclusions.

Very good to meet you.

Thank you so much Sir! It's also very good to meet you too!
TE
tellyblues
Good to hear your thoughts but what have people missed out on due to money going towards BBC Scotland instead?


Continuing drama River City has had increasing pressure to turn around more scenes in a production week. For a very long time they worked weekends, so shooting blocs of 16 weeks took a massive toll on cast and crew alike. In fact it took pressure from Equity to push back and give the cast their weekends to recover.

COVID has changed things of course, but it might disappoint you to learn that of the slate of BBC Studios continuing dramas (including Doctors), River City were initially the only show not offered furlough, or at least a financial emolument to retain the cast whose contracts were terminated overnight. More representations to Equity from their union rep (a member of the regular cast) was successful in getting a token payment to some very worried actors.

When you cut money from a drama series you're talking about no supporting artistes in the background of shots or in the cafe. No taxi driving up the street at the back of frame. It genuinely is all up there on the screen - or not.

The BBC Scotland channel cash could be better spent.


Thanks for the info about River City.
GE
thegeek Founding member
I’m really not trying to be petty here but viewers in England had to sit and listen to the main story of the Scottish exams cock up. Because of us not getting our results at the same time it means they can both be covered effectively.

I'd argue it's vanishingly rare for a Scottish political story to lead the UK national news. On the other hand it's pretty common for stories about legislation which affects only England to lead the agenda. These are still of interest to viewers in Scotland but could happily be bumped down to a shorter slot lower down the running order in favour of more relevant stories.

I think the best example of what a Scottish Six could do is the former split Scotland Today bulletins from STV: they covered much of the same stories and shared reporters and packages, but shuffled the running order around to suit. Scale that up to a national scale and you've got a fairly compelling product.
PE
Pete Founding member
So as someone who is very much at the polar opposite of the Indy debate than Gavin, I have totally come round to the idea of a Scottish Six.

The bulk of the domestic news at six is English news. Education, health, planning, it's all devolved up here so although there remains an interest it's not necessarily relevant and takes up a far greater proportion of screen time than it really should.

The Nine is a magnificent production, sadly hidden away from a higher viewership. It balances global, Scottish, and UK news flawlessly with its hour long running time giving stories room to breathe. I've long felt they should show it at 9 on News 24, and show Outside Source at Ten rather than the same as on BBC One.

So what about Reporting Scotland, as a few have asked. The second biggest issue with reporting Scotland (the first being their awful new theme) is that it robs Scotland of having actual regional news. I live in Dundee. I want news from Dundee and Angus, not endless Glasgow/Edinburgh stuff. I find this imbalance by far the most annoying. If you had a 30 min version of The Nine at 6, then there'd be room for Look Tayside, or Points Fife, or English language regional news for the Highlands and Islands (and possibly a proper studio for An La).

Whether or not BBC Scotland is designed to fail, I don't know. It suffers from the same branding nightmare that I can't believe its not News 24 does, but it's high enough up on the EPG on Virgin at least that it isn't buried. But if anything the excellence of The Nine somewhat shows that the original plan may have been the best.

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