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BBC Select to return as a brand

New North American streaming service

BR
Brekkie Wales Wales Today
Considering how the BBC like to rebrand gradually nowadays rather than do it all at once surely if the BBC logo was changing they'd do it one block at a time. Wink
Be nicer and more tolerant to each other. Them's the rules.
BR
brioalex Central (East) East Midlands Today
DTV posted:
I would love to see in 24 years of the current BBC blocks logo another example of where the logo has been altered or changed because of failure in brand management.


In addition to Spencer and gottago's examples, there are countless examples of incorrect versions of the BBC logo being used for the logo fade in-fade out at the start of a programme. I've seen versions where the logo was squashed, where the letters were filled in and where they'd clearly tried to make their own version - often ending up with square boxes and Gill Sans Regular.

BBC Films have used an incorrect version of the BBC blocks for years and nobody has done anything. Every version of the BBC News graphics since 2007 have not adhered to the guidelines which clearly state that, if it is placed in a box, there must be at least half the width of one block between the logo and the edge of the box. The new all pink BBC iPlayer logo is in violation of every version of the BBC logo guidelines since 1997 which have all stated that the logo must only be in black or white.

Frankly, whoever is in charge of BBC brand management takes their eye off the ball a lot.


I can totally see that now thanks to those examples. Whoever is in charge of brand management at the BBC obviously isn’t a stickler for detail.

I do however still think that the BBC Select logo seems more of an intentional departure from the BBC blocks we all know and see.
SP
Spencer Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)
Pete posted:
The BBC Jobs site has used the incorrect graphic in its opengraph previews for over four years. I'd not read anything into that example.


I don’t think anyone’s reading anything into it beyond that the BBC has used many bodged versions of its logo over the years which haven’t necessarily been a foretaste of an upcoming rebrand.
BR
Brynt Anglia (West) Look East (West sub-opt)
This probably doesn't mean anything as I have no concept of how copyright works, but the footer of the BBC Select website states that the logo has 1996 copyright. Firstly I thought the Lambie-Nairn logo was introduced in 1997 (but I guess they had to copyright it beforehand), but if that's the case then why would the bizarre BBC Select logo have the same copyright as the masterbrand Lambie-Nairn logo, if it's a new logo?
PE
Pete Founding member North Reporting Scotland
Pete posted:
The BBC Jobs site has used the incorrect graphic in its opengraph previews for over four years. I'd not read anything into that example.


I don’t think anyone’s reading anything into it beyond that the BBC has used many bodged versions of its logo over the years which haven’t necessarily been a foretaste of an upcoming rebrand.


The caption underneath the screenshot literally said:
"Spotted this similar logo on a BBC job posting on facebook... seems a brand refresh is on the way"
ELM 2011: I am sick of been persicuted by you immature TV Forumers!
FB
FBC London London
DTV posted:

BBC Films have used an incorrect version of the BBC blocks for years and nobody has done anything.

Speaking of which: their current logo that they only introduced last month (together with its slightly shorter new name) still uses Good ol’ Gill Sans.
*


Yessss, you line up those letters neatly with those blocks, baby!!


EDIT:
Here’s the logo animation as well.
Last edited by FBC on 21 February 2021 3:06pm
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BR
Brynt Anglia (West) Look East (West sub-opt)
FBC posted:
DTV posted:

BBC Films have used an incorrect version of the BBC blocks for years and nobody has done anything.

Speaking of which: their current logo that they only introduced last month (together with its slightly shorter new name) still uses Good ol’ Gill Sans.
*


Yessss, you line up those letters neatly with those blocks, baby!!


Yes, thankfully they've used the Gill Sans logo in their re-brand, but still not the correct masterbrand version of it I don't think. The spacing between the blocks looks too small and the Gill Sans used looks too thin when compared to the official logo.

This is the issue with the the BBC is that they are such a large global organisation with so many different sub-brands and offshoots that it can be very difficult to keep a consistent brand concept when you have regional divisions doing their own things with the brand. But this builds the argument evermore for consistency and standardisation in the brand, given they are such a widely renowned brand, they should have consistency and strong direction from Broadcasting House in how the brand should be presented, with strict guidelines to follow to. Brand consistency should be a core concept for an organisation as big as the BBC, yet they seem to not treat it as seriously as they should, which could weaken their brand identity.

I did see the BBC blocks as the connecting factor between each branch of the organisation, almost as if 'BBC' is a brand used by many different smaller organisations who then apply their own design concepts around that. However now with this BBC Select logo awfulness, I don't know what to think anymore!

The BBC's branding is completely chaotic and needs to be standardised. They need another Lambie-Nairn 1997 or France Télévisions 2018 style brand overhaul in my opinion, whilst still keeping the Gill Sans block logo however, as this has become so distinctive as the BBC logo.
Last edited by Brynt on 21 February 2021 3:16pm - 3 times in total
LO
lobster Anglia (East) Look East
Have you considered there maybe is something more political and idealogical about expunging Gill Sans from the BBC?

if you don't know already, Eric Gill, the designer of the typeface was a sexual deviant, abuser and paedophile - I suppose, what with the BBC itself being embroiled in several abuse scandals over the years, it's is of course uncomfortably ironic that the logo of the corporation, just like several of it's most famous names happened to entangled in sexual deviancy, I think Gill Sans is a beautiful timeless typeface (that absolutely could be modernised to work better on mobile), but I just wonder if the powers at be at the corporation just think this association is a little close to the bone?

Good point, but if I am not wrong Eric Gill was known to be a sexual deviant, abuser and paedophile long before Gill Sans started to be used by the BBC in 1997.....so why the Beeb used his typeface anyway, since it was already known that Mr Gill did all of these horrible things. Also as somebody else in this forum pointed out, the BBC blocks are not part of the Reith project, so the blocks are still going to remain in Gill Sans, so the unwelcome association will still remain close to the bone. BTW this is just a thought that I have


I think all we can say is that sensitivities have changed over the years, and Saville I think epitomised everything the critics felt was wrong with the BBC and the corporation is now very sensitive towards those kinds of associations.

I don't know if there is even an answer to the problem of separating art from the artist - today, we seem less inclined to be able to do so.

For what it's worth, I think trying out a new logo in a non-core market to see how it works is quite likely, the underlying motivations for doing so - well, I think there is some truth to my point.

The BBC it seems is typical of many large organisations where people and teams tend to be siloed off - a lot of the inconsistency we see is just down to that.... but that all said, the brand is a mess and has been for a long time, possibly even for all of time, except between 1997 and about 2002!
File upload service: http://www.metropol247.co.uk/uploadservice
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SP
Spencer Yorkshire Look North (Yorkshire)
Pete posted:
Pete posted:
The BBC Jobs site has used the incorrect graphic in its opengraph previews for over four years. I'd not read anything into that example.


I don’t think anyone’s reading anything into it beyond that the BBC has used many bodged versions of its logo over the years which haven’t necessarily been a foretaste of an upcoming rebrand.


The caption underneath the screenshot literally said:
"Spotted this similar logo on a BBC job posting on facebook... seems a brand refresh is on the way"


Oh yes, so it does. Must have skimmed over that, and assumed nobody would ever actually think that. Either way, that certainly wasn’t the point I was making.
JC
JCB
Brynt posted:
The BBC's branding is completely chaotic and needs to be standardised. They need another Lambie-Nairn 1997 or France Télévisions 2018 style brand overhaul in my opinion, whilst still keeping the Gill Sans block logo however, as this has become so distinctive as the BBC logo.


But in 1997 the slanted logo was considered distinctive and the BBC logo. Every criticism of this refresh was also said of Nairn's redesign in 97. People seem to be forgetting, or ignoring, the fact it was considered an unnecessary waste of money at the time.
MW
Mike W London London
JCB posted:
Brynt posted:
The BBC's branding is completely chaotic and needs to be standardised. They need another Lambie-Nairn 1997 or France Télévisions 2018 style brand overhaul in my opinion, whilst still keeping the Gill Sans block logo however, as this has become so distinctive as the BBC logo.


But in 1997 the slanted logo was considered distinctive and the BBC logo. Every criticism of this refresh was also said of Nairn's redesign in 97. People seem to be forgetting, or ignoring, the fact it was considered an unnecessary waste of money at the time.

What 'refresh' - the blocks aren't changing - this is a simple case of a designer (let's be honest, probably based abroad and doesn't see the BBC logo every day) recreating something with the tools they've been given (BBC Reith?).

What I can see has happened is someone outside the BBC being asked to come up with a logo for this new service, they've gone 'sure, what font is used in the BBC logo' and someone with no design eye or basic knowledge has gone 'This is the BBC typeface, BBC Reith. Sign the disclaimer for its use' and the designer has plonked it into some boxes, rather than trying to find a vector drawing of the current logo that doesn't come from wikipedia.

People seem to be criticising the way the brand management has fallen apart at the seams and is inconsistent - which is exactly what internal criticism lead to the 1997 rebrand - a wholesale rebrand isn't needed - a realignment is. Instill some clear rules again and enforce them, reject things that don't conform and instruct everyone to replace whatever copies of the BBC logo they use already - just reissue the master artwork.

I'll leave this here:

https://cleanfeed.thetvroom.com/7166/opinion/more-to-the-bbc-select-logo-than-meets-the-eye/

Feel free to dismiss etc etc. But a review is in progress.



An interesting article; but along with this thread I'm getting annoyed with the term 'masterbrand' being used, I'm not sure it's even a word. I'd question their sources.

For instance, we have a network news/regional news director on the site and they were heard earlier in this thread to say:
The BBC blocks are not changing. It’s not part of the Reith project. It never was. There is no rebrand of the master logo in the pipeline.

A named source, we can trust in the veracity of his claims.

I think there's a strong degree of people wanting to see more in this than there is, for whatever reason.
Last edited by Mike W on 22 February 2021 3:39am - 4 times in total
BA
bilky asko Tyne Tees Look North (North East)
If you're basing your scepticism on the word "masterbrand", whilst you won't find it in the OED it is a word used to describe a brand like the main BBC brand.

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