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BBC Scotland thread

(July 2015)

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SP
Steve in Pudsey
elmarko posted:
TonyCurrie posted:
Nations take a clean feed normally, and only when going 'out of circuit' is NET 1 routed to Coding & Mux. However, the ins and outs of news programmes have NET 1 fed via the local studio to the Presentation Mixer, and if they are a little bit out of step you can sometimes see a glitch - most often coming off Easteders and going into the 8pm Headlines.

Is that the same for regions? Deejay’s bbc Oxford videos and the live stream from the NWT gallery seemed to show the opt in and the Network feed going through the mixer.

I think anyway. May be a false memory Smile

Yes, that's a soft opt. Put network on the local mixer, switch the studio output into circuit, cut away on cue.

Makes for a much neater transition from network, in analogue days the switch was usually accompanied by a bit of picture disturbance and a NICAM splat, so soft opting meant that could be hidden discretely at a suitable point (end of a sentence, during the credits or been trails) in the network programme rather at the out point.
DE
deejay
Yup - soft opts were the norm in the analogue days. They've only recently been properly re-engineered. For a long time analogue remained soft opted but the digital streams simply cut to and from network when a GPI said the local vision mixer was 'not on network'. In pre 16:9 days this also put an ARC into circuit to transmit 14:9 Letterbox on analogue and 14:9 Pillarbox on digital. Sometimes this was not altogether seamless and far from frame accurate. It's now once again possible to do any transition you want in and out of network, though generally most cut, possibly as a legacy of only being able to do so for over a decade. A few regions even put a cue-dot over their output once soft-opted to prove that they're in circuit.
MA
Markymark
Steve in Pudsey posted:
elmarko posted:
TonyCurrie posted:
Nations take a clean feed normally, and only when going 'out of circuit' is NET 1 routed to Coding & Mux. However, the ins and outs of news programmes have NET 1 fed via the local studio to the Presentation Mixer, and if they are a little bit out of step you can sometimes see a glitch - most often coming off Easteders and going into the 8pm Headlines.

Is that the same for regions? Deejay’s bbc Oxford videos and the live stream from the NWT gallery seemed to show the opt in and the Network feed going through the mixer.

I think anyway. May be a false memory Smile

Yes, that's a soft opt. Put network on the local mixer, switch the studio output into circuit, cut away on cue.

Makes for a much neater transition from network, in analogue days the switch was usually accompanied by a bit of picture disturbance and a NICAM splat, so soft opting meant that could be hidden discretely at a suitable point (end of a sentence, during the credits or been trails) in the network programme rather at the out point.


Here in BBC South land we get a one frame stutter on audio and video
SP
Steve in Pudsey
Pretty seamless in Yorkshire. You only know they've soft opted because they put up a cue dot for a few seconds to prove they're in circuit (after some embarrassing failures in the early days in their current building)
DE
deejay
Markymark posted:
Steve in Pudsey posted:
elmarko posted:
Is that the same for regions? Deejay’s bbc Oxford videos and the live stream from the NWT gallery seemed to show the opt in and the Network feed going through the mixer.

I think anyway. May be a false memory Smile

Yes, that's a soft opt. Put network on the local mixer, switch the studio output into circuit, cut away on cue.

Makes for a much neater transition from network, in analogue days the switch was usually accompanied by a bit of picture disturbance and a NICAM splat, so soft opting meant that could be hidden discretely at a suitable point (end of a sentence, during the credits or been trails) in the network programme rather at the out point.


Here in BBC South land we get a one frame stutter on audio and video


Sounds like it needs retiming then. It was seamless!
MA
Markymark
deejay posted:
Markymark posted:
Steve in Pudsey posted:
Yes, that's a soft opt. Put network on the local mixer, switch the studio output into circuit, cut away on cue.

Makes for a much neater transition from network, in analogue days the switch was usually accompanied by a bit of picture disturbance and a NICAM splat, so soft opting meant that could be hidden discretely at a suitable point (end of a sentence, during the credits or been trails) in the network programme rather at the out point.


Here in BBC South land we get a one frame stutter on audio and video


Sounds like it needs retiming then. It was seamless!


It's been like it since around DSO in 2012. I try and spot it every night at 22:25 ish Very Happy
TC
TonyCurrie
denton posted:
Si-Co posted:
Ah. thanks Tony. So a blip during the EastEnders opening titles (particularly on a Monday or Friday, when it follows the news summary) would be the switch back from NET1 to a clean feed?


It's actually the opposite to that.

The glitch you've noticed on the EastEnders titles has absolutely nothing to do with the previous news summary.

EastEnders, like all network programmes, is joined (and left) using a clean feed (which is generated by a clean feed enabling flag being put on that event in the London schedule).

The glitch you sometimes notice is at the point the Nation switches from the clean feed, back to the sustaining network (dirty) feed. This is done so that the director/announcer in that Nation can get on with other tasks (writing, previewing, line-up, going to the loo, etc) without having to worry about monitoring the network programme constantly.

In ideal circumstances there shouldn't be a noticeable glitch. However the clean feed and dirty feed can drift apart, for various reasons... e.g. if there are any changes to the many bits of kit the circuit is travelling through, or if one feed is on the main circuit and the other is on the reserve.

EastEnders titles make this particularly noticeable due to the rotation and pull-out from the river. It can be minimised by waiting until the end of the titles. Glitches are less noticeable on a nice static shot.


Personally, I stay on the clean feed all the time. I'm there, I can react to a problem quickly, and the clean feed is often a little less prone to problems. So no glitches. (I used to live in Dublin and always waited for the glitch just before BBC ONE Northern Ireland went into circuit for the 6pm news. It was very obvious!)
SP
Steve in Pudsey
Markymark posted:
deejay posted:
Markymark posted:

Here in BBC South land we get a one frame stutter on audio and video


Sounds like it needs retiming then. It was seamless!


It's been like it since around DSO in 2012. I try and spot it every night at 22:25 ish Very Happy

Is it present on the 18:30? I assume these may use different galleries which could have different delays?
MA
Markymark
Steve in Pudsey posted:
Markymark posted:
deejay posted:

Sounds like it needs retiming then. It was seamless!


It's been like it since around DSO in 2012. I try and spot it every night at 22:25 ish Very Happy

Is it present on the 18:30? I assume these may use different galleries which could have different delays?


Dunno, rarely see the 6pm news, but you might be right.
NT
NorthTonight
I'm trying to work out the logic ( normally pointless with BBC Scotland's scheduling ) but they've moved Eat Well For Less to Thursday and Council House Crackdown, which is shown elsewhere on Thursday is being broadcast at 8pm on Wednesday. Anyone able to shed light on this ?
EL
elmarko
Tony: do you have time to do all you need to do if you do that? (Tasks mentioned above)
DE
denton
TonyCurrie posted:
denton posted:
Si-Co posted:
Ah. thanks Tony. So a blip during the EastEnders opening titles (particularly on a Monday or Friday, when it follows the news summary) would be the switch back from NET1 to a clean feed?


It's actually the opposite to that.

The glitch you've noticed on the EastEnders titles has absolutely nothing to do with the previous news summary.

EastEnders, like all network programmes, is joined (and left) using a clean feed (which is generated by a clean feed enabling flag being put on that event in the London schedule).

The glitch you sometimes notice is at the point the Nation switches from the clean feed, back to the sustaining network (dirty) feed. This is done so that the director/announcer in that Nation can get on with other tasks (writing, previewing, line-up, going to the loo, etc) without having to worry about monitoring the network programme constantly.

In ideal circumstances there shouldn't be a noticeable glitch. However the clean feed and dirty feed can drift apart, for various reasons... e.g. if there are any changes to the many bits of kit the circuit is travelling through, or if one feed is on the main circuit and the other is on the reserve.

EastEnders titles make this particularly noticeable due to the rotation and pull-out from the river. It can be minimised by waiting until the end of the titles. Glitches are less noticeable on a nice static shot.


...the clean feed is often a little less prone to problems. So no glitches.


Unless of course there is a problem with a network OB, which requires them to switch from a main to a reserve circuit. The Clean Feed unfortunately does not automatically switch to the reserve in that situation. If you stay on the CF you are reliant on the network director opening talkback and informing you of what action they're taking, and getting them to manually route the reserve circuit to the Clean Feed. Which can take some time.

The three Nations have naturally developed some differences in working practices over the decades... but of course we all aim for a high standard of output.

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