Speak of the devil...tonight's Look North (hull edition) contained more of the nasty video. This time a report from a bird sanctuary in Boston. People were interviewed centre of the screen, instead of to the left or right. Their faces were a sort of reddish-purple. All the shots very over exposed. Just awful. Sorry if I am whinging about this, but it is sending me insane! Someone buy this lot a decent camera!
perhaps they knew they'd have to get in and out. a bird sanctuary (i'm sure they have owls there) in boston is like a holding red rag ... or maroon owl embroidered sweater to a bull
That's enough owl references.... move along now people... nothing to see.....
A lot of regional programmes now use dvcams - easily noticeable by the fact that the piccies are soft and very often not in focus anyway. I find it hurts my eyes as they strain to find something to focus on.
I'd be careful using the phrase "dvcams" - you'll find most BBC News material is either shot or recorded on "DVCam" the tape format these days. If by "dvcam" you mean a miniDV camcorder, or a low cost DVCam-badged version of a miniDV camcorder I think you need to be a bit more specific - say semi-pro, or low-end DV.
No , I'm talking about the likes of PD150 on local programmes - showing at your local ITV station now ! Don't miss it ! ( or rather do.... )
thanks Emleymoor. I agree with you that some of the results are pretty bad. But I guess pro cameramen and pro editors cost money - and if the beeb is to continue expanding tv in the regions (haven't they just announced 60 new tv stations?) they will need to find a way to pay for it. It's just a pity that they have chosen to sacrifice quality pictures - something the beeb was always good at.
Do you know what type of cameras they are using? I take it they didn't just go down to Dixon's?!
The cameras certainly are NOT "domestic" as you referred to them.
They are mostly Sony PD150/250s and VX2000s, which are high-end production models. They cost about £2500 each...
Which is a lot different to about £20k's worth of SP/SX.
You get what you pay for.
In some circumstances Mini DV is acceptable.
But as always it depends on operator and lighting conditions.
ITV is also looking at ways to lower production costs.
So while we are encouraged to go down a better TV system for improved quality, the broadcasters return the favour and use low cost cameras.
On the original question, there's nothing new about either MiniDV or DVCAM (or, for that matter) DVCPRO being used for regional news shooting. I was shooting for BBC on a Sony VX1000 DV unit back in 1996.
I take it that the 'sp/sx' you refer to is a type of camera?
Kind of - it is actually a description of the recording format. Both are Sony 1/2" tape formats, with kit availaible across the industrial, professional and broadcast quality areas in the case of SP (UVW, PVW and BVW) It is possible to buy one piece camcorders - where the camera and VTR are integrated - though in some cases it is still possible to buy separate camera fronts and VTR backs - so you can use an Ikegami camera with a Sony Beta SP dockable back-end VTR for example.
SP = Betacam SP (a reasonably high quality analogue component format)
This was a development from the original Betacam format (which itself is a relation to Betamax - different recording standard but similar cassette design)
Beta SP has been around since the late 80s and was pretty much the News ENG standard throughout most of the 90s - and is still in use in loads of areas. One-piece Beta SP camcorders are limited to 4:3 acquisition - though you can use Beta SP VTRs to record 4:3 or 16:9 material. BBC Network News in London pretty much universally edit to Beta SP if editing on tape - even though they are 16:9. (They are moving to server editing - but not yet)
Digital Betacam was introduced in the early-mid 90s and is a high quality digital recording format, again based on the same size cassettes, but using different tape and kit. It uses a small amount of video compression (about 2.2:1) but is pretty high quality. It is pretty much the standard production delivery format in the UK for non-News production - both 4:3 and 16:9. (Even if you don't shoot on DigiBeta, you probably have to deliver on it) It IS expensive - probably the most expensive standard definition tape format currently in use. (D1 excluded) Some DigiBeta VTRs also playback Beta SP analogue recordings - which can be really handy (though they don't record SP)
SX = Betacam SX. SX came a little bit after Digital Betacam and is much cheaper (the cassettes are again the same size - but the stock is much lower quality and cheaper - the SX tapes are normally bright yellow!) It records a much more compressed signal than DigiBeta - and some say is poorer quality than Beta SP. It was Sony's 1/2" ENG format suggestion and has been mildly successful. The big advantage is that most Beta SX VTRs will replay Beta SP recordings - making replay of old archive material on SP pretty easy.
Sony also have a couple of other formats based on their 1/2" cassette format.
HDCam (which is an HDTV VTR format - now available in two flavours - heavily compressed and lightly compressed), and IMX (which is an MPEG2 based SDTV format - normally based on 50Mbs - midway between DigiBeta and BetaSX in quality. It is comparable with DVCPro50 in quality - and the EBU suggest MPEG2 50 as the best quality/compression compromise)
All of these, with the exception of Beta SX, wipe the floor with DV25 (as a recording/compression system) as used in DVCam, miniDV and DVCPro25. Beta SP normally outperforms DV in 1st generation recordings - though as it is analogue it doesn't last in multi-generation as well.
As ever though - the quality of the recording format is only part of the equation - just as important, if not more so, is the quality of the lens, the CCD, the camera's picture processing etc.
PD150s may use the same recording format as a DSR 500, but the lens and CCD are pretty rubbish in comparison... (Though the DSR 500 costs three times the amount - and may not include a decent lens at that price point. Often the lens costs more than the camera, sometimes a lot more...)
On the original question, there's nothing new about either MiniDV or DVCAM (or, for that matter) DVCPRO being used for regional news shooting. I was shooting for BBC on a Sony VX1000 DV unit back in 1996.
CB
Yep - Look East were using VX1000s at that time as well. However they were using them to shoot stuff that couldn't be shot on SP (taking advantage of the small size of the DV stuff to get angles that weren't available before, or in environments where you could damage an expensive broadcast camera) - or required long term filming with a minimal crew (say for sensitive interviewing or fly-on-the-wall stuff) The quality drop caused comment - but was deemed acceptable for the improvement in access/coverage.
The difference seems to be that now the English regions have decide that DV is good enough for normal newsgathering - where previously a broadcast quality camera would have been used (and thus operated by a professional camera operator - more important than the camera quality per se) This is resulting in washed out, poorly exposed, poorly white balanced, poorly framed, coverage, often with equally poor, or worse, sound quality.
The irony is that this move is being sold as "digital" and an improvement - when in reality it is just a drop in quality (and probably safety in some cases if a journalist is working alone without a camera crew)
Even worse is that the new digital platforms only deliver decent picture quality at the compression levels used in the UK if they are fed high quality source pictures - using miniDV quality camcorders (even if badged DVCam) just reduces the quality even further...
well, as I have said before on this board, I am just amazed that the BBC Regions carry on doing this. Everyone seems to have a problem with these new cheapo cameras. How long will it take before some of the bosses within the bbc start to realise they have made a mistake?
Have a look at Rosenblums picture gallery of the BBC PDP training centre in Newcastle - you may spot one of your local reporters learning to become a PDPer!
Regarding compaints, contact your local BBC Centre. The details of which can be found in the phonebook and Yellow Pages
This Rosemblum chap seems to talk a very good game - though it does all read a bit like a college thesis ( 'the democratising of tv' etc).
The problem is that these 'pdp' tv reports in the English Regions (I can only say I have seen the ones from Look North in Leeds and Hull) look like low quality garbage to me.
Am i missing something here?
Anyway, good luck to Mr Rosemblum - his website says he charges £3000 per person, per course, so he is obviously making a very good living out of the BBC!
And I must say - the course does look like a load of fun.
This Rosemblum chap seems to talk a very good game - though it does all read a bit like a college thesis ( 'the democratising of tv' etc).
The problem is that these 'pdp' tv reports in the English Regions (I can only say I have seen the ones from Look North in Leeds and Hull) look like low quality garbage to me.
Am i missing something here?
Anyway, good luck to Mr Rosemblum - his website says he charges £3000 per person, per course, so he is obviously making a very good living out of the BBC!
And I must say - the course does look like a load of fun.
I think the Beeb run their own Rosemblum-based courses - rather than sending everyone to his company. (That said - 3k for a training course isn't that expensive in broadcast industry terms...)
