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BBC Regions using domestic camcorders?

(July 2004)

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NS
NickyS Founding member
harshy posted:
Steve in Pudsey posted:
Although a quick press of Back Up wouldn't be too much to ask you would hope


Why don't they tune Sky Sports via other channels and then distribute this around BBC Television centre, surely this is possible and will never have the red button on it!

I wish BBC News 24 could get their pictures where World get them, as their pictures are DOGless!

The reason World run DOGless pictures is a rights issue. As part of teh news access agreement in the UK you have to use the pictures as they were broadcast by the rights holder - so for Premiership SKY or until the end of the season ITV ... it's why Sky show Wimbledon pictures off BBC. World do different rights deals - sometimes direct with the owners - like with Formula One - which is why BBC One/N24 show ITV pictures but World show the ones made available by Bernie E's lot.
SP
Steve in Pudsey
I guess that could cause headaches when say News 24's studio has a power cut (not that that ever happens of course) and they take World - World's playout system having the dogless versions all lined up
MU
museumman
£2500 for a tv camera is cheap - explains the picture quality
BC
broadband cowboy
Using it for news is one thing , but when they start using these cameras on programmes - as Itv is doing - then things are really starting to go downhill. Sad
MO
moss Founding member
broadband cowboy posted:
Using it for news is one thing , but when they start using these cameras on programmes - as Itv is doing - then things are really starting to go downhill. Sad


Which programmes?

If I recall, the cameras used on stuff like Changing Rooms are *technically* below broadcast quality.. A lot better quality than some news cameras, though.
BC
broadband cowboy
A lot of regional programmes now use dvcams - easily noticeable by the fact that the piccies are soft and very often not in focus anyway. I find it hurts my eyes as they strain to find something to focus on. Confused
NG
noggin Founding member
Aston posted:
museumman posted:
thanks Emleymoor. I agree with you that some of the results are pretty bad. But I guess pro cameramen and pro editors cost money - and if the beeb is to continue expanding tv in the regions (haven't they just announced 60 new tv stations?) they will need to find a way to pay for it. It's just a pity that they have chosen to sacrifice quality pictures - something the beeb was always good at.

Do you know what type of cameras they are using? I take it they didn't just go down to Dixon's?!


The cameras certainly are NOT "domestic" as you referred to them.

They are mostly Sony PD150/250s and VX2000s, which are high-end production models. They cost about £2500 each...


Err - the PD150 and VX2000 are both basically DVCam badged (and slightly upgraded) versions of Sony domestic camcorders though - the VX1000 was Sony's first domestic 3CCD camcorder.

They are certainly not "high-end" DVCam models - they are the cheapest DVCam. (You could describe them as "high-end" domestic though)

DSR-500s or similar are nearer the high-end of DVCam and produce massively better results. (They are the standard ENG camera for BBC News these days I think)

The difference isn't in the tape recording system (though the PD-150s are a lot less robust than the DSR500) - it is the quality (and size) of the CCDs, the prism block (the bit that splits the colours between the CCDs), the video processing circuitry (that copes with colour balance, colourimetry, aperture correction, gamma, knee etc.) , plus the most important difference - the quality of the lens. This makes more difference than many people think - and the DSR-500 and simlar DVCam camcorders allow you to change lenses, fitting broadcast quality lenses with remote zoom/focus demands for example.

The difference between material shot on a DSR500 and a 150 is huge... PD150s should only be used for broadcast output where there are access or real budget reasons (say you need to film for weeks on end in an unobtrusive manner) - otherwise it really shouldn't be on.

Once you get involved in 16:9 production the differences become even more marked - with the poor quality of the PD150 and similar really becoming obvious.
NG
noggin Founding member
broadband cowboy posted:
A lot of regional programmes now use dvcams - easily noticeable by the fact that the piccies are soft and very often not in focus anyway. I find it hurts my eyes as they strain to find something to focus on. Confused


I'd be careful using the phrase "dvcams" - you'll find most BBC News material is either shot or recorded on "DVCam" the tape format these days. If by "dvcam" you mean a miniDV camcorder, or a low cost DVCam-badged version of a miniDV camcorder I think you need to be a bit more specific - say semi-pro, or low-end DV.
NG
noggin Founding member
peterrocket posted:
Sky Sports etc, when there's something they want on, they know when it will be on, so can easily have someone with a digiBeta machine record the show/match.

Adverts, no one really knows when a specific advert will be on, so VHS is cheaper and can be run in a logger style


If it is within BBC News it is far more likely to be a DVCam or Beta SP VTR - DigiBeta is only used for graphics mastering within News (apart from a few odd little places ...)
NG
noggin Founding member
harshy posted:
Steve in Pudsey posted:
Although a quick press of Back Up wouldn't be too much to ask you would hope


Why don't they tune Sky Sports via other channels and then distribute this around BBC Television centre, surely this is possible and will never have the red button on it!

I wish BBC News 24 could get their pictures where World get them, as their pictures are DOGless!


It wouldn't be safe to add them via other channels - as Sky can move their services around the transponders at will - meaning they could disappear from the Other Channels method of tuning with no warning - which is not good for a news feed.
AS
Aston
noggin posted:
Aston posted:
museumman posted:
thanks Emleymoor. I agree with you that some of the results are pretty bad. But I guess pro cameramen and pro editors cost money - and if the beeb is to continue expanding tv in the regions (haven't they just announced 60 new tv stations?) they will need to find a way to pay for it. It's just a pity that they have chosen to sacrifice quality pictures - something the beeb was always good at.

Do you know what type of cameras they are using? I take it they didn't just go down to Dixon's?!


The cameras certainly are NOT "domestic" as you referred to them.

They are mostly Sony PD150/250s and VX2000s, which are high-end production models. They cost about £2500 each...


Err - the PD150 and VX2000 are both basically DVCam badged (and slightly upgraded) versions of Sony domestic camcorders though - the VX1000 was Sony's first domestic 3CCD camcorder.

They are certainly not "high-end" DVCam models - they are the cheapest DVCam. (You could describe them as "high-end" domestic though)


When I said "high end production model" I meant the same thing as you.

Although they may be considered by many as "domestic", there really aren't homes up and down the country with them that families take on holiday.

You'll find that you can mostly only get them from speciallist camera shops and you certainly can't get them from Argos...
HA
harshy Founding member
NickyS posted:
harshy posted:
Steve in Pudsey posted:
Although a quick press of Back Up wouldn't be too much to ask you would hope


Why don't they tune Sky Sports via other channels and then distribute this around BBC Television centre, surely this is possible and will never have the red button on it!

I wish BBC News 24 could get their pictures where World get them, as their pictures are DOGless!

The reason World run DOGless pictures is a rights issue. As part of teh news access agreement in the UK you have to use the pictures as they were broadcast by the rights holder - so for Premiership SKY or until the end of the season ITV ... it's why Sky show Wimbledon pictures off BBC. World do different rights deals - sometimes direct with the owners - like with Formula One - which is why BBC One/N24 show ITV pictures but World show the ones made available by Bernie E's lot.


That rule sucks really!

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