DV
Because with the different encoding systems and transmission chains for Freeview, Satellite and Cable the clock would only be accurate on Analogue.
It's an unfortunate bit of fallout from digitalisation of TV.
It's an unfortunate bit of fallout from digitalisation of TV.
NA
I thought it was something like that - bit of a shame though!!
DVB Cornwall posted:
Because with the different encoding systems and transmission chains for Freeview, Satellite and Cable the clock would only be accurate on Analogue.
It's an unfortunate bit of fallout from digitalisation of TV.
It's an unfortunate bit of fallout from digitalisation of TV.
I thought it was something like that - bit of a shame though!!
DE
It is true that the delay caused by digital transmission made the Clock more inaccurate on digital platforms than on analogue.
However don't forget the Clock was used during the Balloon era, on analogue, Sky, On Digital, and digital cable. I don't think anybody seriously worried that it was 'out' by a few seconds.
Also, the Clocks used in the Nations and Regions were always off-set by about second to allow them to Opt back to the network feed cleanly. So chances are that the Clock you saw on analogue was no where near accurate anyway!
A Clock was designed for use with the Dancers, however it never made it to air. I was told the decission was taken the day before launch. One *possible* reason may have been that the 'BBC ONE' box was in slightly the wrong place. But there was probably another reason.
DVB Cornwall posted:
Because with the different encoding systems and transmission chains for Freeview, Satellite and Cable the clock would only be accurate on Analogue.
It's an unfortunate bit of fallout from digitalisation of TV.
It's an unfortunate bit of fallout from digitalisation of TV.
It is true that the delay caused by digital transmission made the Clock more inaccurate on digital platforms than on analogue.
However don't forget the Clock was used during the Balloon era, on analogue, Sky, On Digital, and digital cable. I don't think anybody seriously worried that it was 'out' by a few seconds.
Also, the Clocks used in the Nations and Regions were always off-set by about second to allow them to Opt back to the network feed cleanly. So chances are that the Clock you saw on analogue was no where near accurate anyway!
A Clock was designed for use with the Dancers, however it never made it to air. I was told the decission was taken the day before launch. One *possible* reason may have been that the 'BBC ONE' box was in slightly the wrong place. But there was probably another reason.
JO
It is true that the delay caused by digital transmission made the Clock more inaccurate on digital platforms than on analogue.
However don't forget the Clock was used during the Balloon era, on analogue, Sky, On Digital, and digital cable. I don't think anybody seriously worried that it was 'out' by a few seconds.
Also, the Clocks used in the Nations and Regions were always off-set by about second to allow them to Opt back to the network feed cleanly. So chances are that the Clock you saw on analogue was no where near accurate anyway!
A Clock was designed for use with the Dancers, however it never made it to air. I was told the decission was taken the day before launch. One *possible* reason may have been that the 'BBC ONE' box was in slightly the wrong place. But there was probably another reason.
I would like to see that, unfortunately BBC don't leak unaired stuff that often
denton posted:
DVB Cornwall posted:
Because with the different encoding systems and transmission chains for Freeview, Satellite and Cable the clock would only be accurate on Analogue.
It's an unfortunate bit of fallout from digitalisation of TV.
It's an unfortunate bit of fallout from digitalisation of TV.
It is true that the delay caused by digital transmission made the Clock more inaccurate on digital platforms than on analogue.
However don't forget the Clock was used during the Balloon era, on analogue, Sky, On Digital, and digital cable. I don't think anybody seriously worried that it was 'out' by a few seconds.
Also, the Clocks used in the Nations and Regions were always off-set by about second to allow them to Opt back to the network feed cleanly. So chances are that the Clock you saw on analogue was no where near accurate anyway!
A Clock was designed for use with the Dancers, however it never made it to air. I was told the decission was taken the day before launch. One *possible* reason may have been that the 'BBC ONE' box was in slightly the wrong place. But there was probably another reason.
I would like to see that, unfortunately BBC don't leak unaired stuff that often
BA
So does that mean the BBC World, and News 24 countdowns are not actually at the top of the hour when we view it. My clock is set by the countdown
Bail
Moderator
DVB Cornwall posted:
Because with the different encoding systems and transmission chains for Freeview, Satellite and Cable the clock would only be accurate on Analogue.
It's an unfortunate bit of fallout from digitalisation of TV.
It's an unfortunate bit of fallout from digitalisation of TV.
So does that mean the BBC World, and News 24 countdowns are not actually at the top of the hour when we view it. My clock is set by the countdown
SD
Of course, if you're a pedant like ME you'll insist that the accuracy of news bulletins is entirely down to editorial control, and has nothing to do with the time the bulletin goes to air
Seriously though - and I write as someone with a life-long obsession with time and timekeepers - I doubt anyone actually set their watch to the pres clock. I always used the speaking clock myself. Accurate time is now easily available by many different means, so the need for an in-vision clock is redundant, other than its use as a presentation device.
Big Ben still appears on Radio 4 several times a day, and that's generally accurate to within a second, but just check the timings of news bulletins on other networks. I can tell you that, for instance, Radio 2 seldom hit the news exactly on the hour through the day other than those bulletins which follow the GTS. When I have checked them they have often been anywhere between 30" early and a minute late. If they go past the minute the newsreader will generally open with "The news at just after....", but inside that margin of error bulletins are introduced as "The news at 11 o'clock..." or whatever.
The latency in the digital TV network feed to Cardiff required the DigiPres clock to be retarded by three fifths of a second to hit the top of the news without the second hand moving on a second. In those days there was a separate clock for the analogue pres area which was spot-on. Obviously once the outgoing feed had been re-multiplexed and either TXd from the DTT sites or fed to the uplink and back down to receivers the error was around 1 second on DTT and 2 seconds on DSat.
James Malcolm Burns posted:
Digitization generates a coding and decoding delay of up to 1.5 seconds on our Freeview here in Glasgow, meaning that from analouge shutdown we will no longer have accurate news bulletins. Its a more significant issue than it seems, and on the narrow issue of time if you are a pedant like me: a retrograde step indeed.
Of course, if you're a pedant like ME you'll insist that the accuracy of news bulletins is entirely down to editorial control, and has nothing to do with the time the bulletin goes to air
Seriously though - and I write as someone with a life-long obsession with time and timekeepers - I doubt anyone actually set their watch to the pres clock. I always used the speaking clock myself. Accurate time is now easily available by many different means, so the need for an in-vision clock is redundant, other than its use as a presentation device.
Big Ben still appears on Radio 4 several times a day, and that's generally accurate to within a second, but just check the timings of news bulletins on other networks. I can tell you that, for instance, Radio 2 seldom hit the news exactly on the hour through the day other than those bulletins which follow the GTS. When I have checked them they have often been anywhere between 30" early and a minute late. If they go past the minute the newsreader will generally open with "The news at just after....", but inside that margin of error bulletins are introduced as "The news at 11 o'clock..." or whatever.
The latency in the digital TV network feed to Cardiff required the DigiPres clock to be retarded by three fifths of a second to hit the top of the news without the second hand moving on a second. In those days there was a separate clock for the analogue pres area which was spot-on. Obviously once the outgoing feed had been re-multiplexed and either TXd from the DTT sites or fed to the uplink and back down to receivers the error was around 1 second on DTT and 2 seconds on DSat.
CW
I don't buy that reason, to be honest.
No one seriously used the BBC Television clock as a timepiece, no one actually cares if it's out by one or two seconds and that is not reason enough to get rid of clocks. As well as that, for 3 1/2 years of digital TV, the BBC were quite happy to put a clock up in front of news bulletins despite the delays between different platforms.
And more to the point, between 2000&2002 English regions didn't see a real clock anyway, they saw a pre-recorded bit of footage of a certain time which was only as accurate as the director that cued it (on several occasions the 6 O'Clock news on BBC1 South West became the news at 5:59:59) - again the BBC were quite happy for that practice to go on and even voluntarily introduced something which would only go on to compound any inaccuracies.
cwathen
Founding member
Quote:
Because with the different encoding systems and transmission chains for Freeview, Satellite and Cable the clock would only be accurate on Analogue.
I don't buy that reason, to be honest.
No one seriously used the BBC Television clock as a timepiece, no one actually cares if it's out by one or two seconds and that is not reason enough to get rid of clocks. As well as that, for 3 1/2 years of digital TV, the BBC were quite happy to put a clock up in front of news bulletins despite the delays between different platforms.
And more to the point, between 2000&2002 English regions didn't see a real clock anyway, they saw a pre-recorded bit of footage of a certain time which was only as accurate as the director that cued it (on several occasions the 6 O'Clock news on BBC1 South West became the news at 5:59:59) - again the BBC were quite happy for that practice to go on and even voluntarily introduced something which would only go on to compound any inaccuracies.
TE
Whatever about accuracy - although I'd be a stickler for it too to be honest - there is something deeply gratifying and reassuring about a presentaion clock.
It helps to regularise things in the mind of the viewer. After watching televison for maybe an hour or so it is refreshing to see the clock appear - it gives you your bearings and helps to formalise an evening's viewing if you're watching quite a few things.
Most of all though, it is the hitting of the second hand on the 12 and the *da don* or whatever of the News kicking in that is so important. It is authoritative, familar and reassuring, and it's important to have such a strong staple in broadcasting.
It is a cop-out to lose the clock; as a physical manifestation of accuracy and efficiency it is naturally in the BBC's interests to ditch it. Not that this is necessarily the reason it was removed, obviously image is supposedly everything now, but certainly no harm's being done with its absence...
It helps to regularise things in the mind of the viewer. After watching televison for maybe an hour or so it is refreshing to see the clock appear - it gives you your bearings and helps to formalise an evening's viewing if you're watching quite a few things.
Most of all though, it is the hitting of the second hand on the 12 and the *da don* or whatever of the News kicking in that is so important. It is authoritative, familar and reassuring, and it's important to have such a strong staple in broadcasting.
It is a cop-out to lose the clock; as a physical manifestation of accuracy and efficiency it is naturally in the BBC's interests to ditch it. Not that this is necessarily the reason it was removed, obviously image is supposedly everything now, but certainly no harm's being done with its absence...